• Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit

    From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to All on Wednesday, December 09, 2020 06:53:22
    So.... The Supreme Court won't entertain the idea that the election was stolen in Pennsylvania. This decison makes it next to impossible for Trump to prevail in his bid to overturn the election.

    I've been saying since the election that there was a very simple way for everyone to know with certainty whether there were any shenanigans going on with the election, and that was to watch the Supreme Court.

    Why have I been saying this? Because 6 of the 9 justices are conservative, and 3 of those were appointed by Trump himself. If there was sufficient fraud to overturn this election, the Supreme Court would have dealt with it. We know from precedent (Bush/Gore 2000) that they'll get involved if need be.

    Even though the court leans so heavily to the right, I fully expected them to not touch this.

    Why? Because the only real fraud is the claims of fraud. The only one really trying to steal the election is Trump. I know many of his supporters wish it weren't so... but wishing don't make reality.

    Anyone agree or disagree?

    -Hobo

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Hobo on Wednesday, December 09, 2020 05:20:13
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to All on Wed Dec 09 2020 06:53 am

    Why? Because the only real fraud is the claims of fraud. The only one really trying to steal the election is Trump. I know many of his supporters wish it weren't so... but wishing don't make reality.

    Anyone agree or disagree?

    I agree completely. Trump was a fraudster when he entered the White House and he'll leave in the same condition.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Hobo on Wednesday, December 09, 2020 10:01:08
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to All on Wed Dec 09 2020 06:53 am

    Why? Because the only real fraud is the claims of fraud. The only one really tryi
    to steal the election is Trump. I know many of his supporters wish it weren't so.
    but wishing don't make reality.

    Anyone agree or disagree?

    TBH I don't think matters much anymore. Whoever gets the throne is gonna have so few
    support as not to be able to accomplish much. Which is probably good because governments that start doing a lot of things usually end up screwing people for some
    reason.

    That said;

    I have heard there are states suing other states because they claim their own electoral procedures -the procedures themselves- are not compliant. There are sworn
    declarations from people who claim electronic election data was processed illegally.
    Then there is all this issue of the election software provided by a company with
    heavily suspicious ties.

    But even if the electons had been 100% clean you could argue that "somebody" has been
    working into manipulating US politics via burning the streets and stirring the mood in
    order to destabilize the federal government. I don't believe for a second that all the
    noise that there has been for more than 6 months has been expontaneous coincidence.

    So whether Trump is a fraudster is open to discussion, but if he is, he is not the
    only one. In fact, I'd say he is not the big one.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hobo on Wednesday, December 09, 2020 08:45:01
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to All on Wed Dec 09 2020 06:53 am

    I've been saying since the election that there was a very simple way for everyone to know with certainty whether there were any shenanigans going on with the election, and that was to watch the Supreme Court.

    Why have I been saying this? Because 6 of the 9 justices are conservative, and 3 of those were appointed by Trump himself. If there was sufficient fraud to overturn this election, the Supreme Court would have dealt with it. We know from precedent (Bush/Gore 2000) that they'll get involved if need be.

    I'd think so. If there was fraud, then why isn't it being taken seriously? Unless there's some amount of corruption making them turn the other way. The other day, I heard Texas has now filed a lawsuit for voting fraud.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, December 09, 2020 17:30:32
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Nightfox to Hobo on Wed Dec 09 2020 08:45 am

    I'd think so. If there was fraud, then why isn't it being taken seriously? Unless there's some amount of corruption making them turn the other way. The other day, I heard Texas has now filed a lawsuit for voting fraud.


    you notice the media tries to control everything. it's only being taken seriously if the media reports it is. there's several cases of issues at the polling places, usps doing bullshit and mail in voting issues.

    also the forensic evidenced has been destroyed. a recount is just recounting all the fraud.
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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Al on Thursday, December 10, 2020 04:37:08
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Hobo on Wed Dec 09 2020 05:20:13

    I agree completely. Trump was a fraudster when he entered the White House and he'll leave in the same condition.

    It has been decades since any politician or political party has been in tune with my core values enough for me to support, so I didn't have a real preference between Clinton and Trump in 2016. However, the past 4 years have been hell. His strength is clearly in being a master at dividing people and pitting them against each other, and that is the worst possible quality we need in a president, so I am happy to see him go. Not exactly a Biden supporter, but by golly, in comparison, Biden is a saint.

    Ttyl :-),


    Looking forward to it.

    -Hobo


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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Arelor on Thursday, December 10, 2020 04:57:00
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Hobo on Wed Dec 09 2020 10:01:08

    TBH I don't think matters much anymore. Whoever gets the throne is gonna have so few support as not to be able to accomplish much. Which is probably good because governments that start doing a lot of things usually end up screwing people for some reason.

    I see this sentiment and agree with parts of it. While I had been hoping and predicting a Trump loss, I was worried about a huge Democratic Sweep, which I am pleased didn't emerge. A "mandate" always seems to be abused in our nation. But having to actually work with the other side has the potential for good. And while I do not like the "career politician" mindset, one thing that comes from it is the ability and willingness to work with the other side to get things done. Something Trump has never been able to accomplish.


    That said;

    I have heard there are states suing other states because they claim their own electoral procedures -the procedures themselves- are not compliant. There are sworn declarations from people who claim electronic election data was processed illegally. Then there is all this issue of the election software provided by a company with heavily suspicious ties.

    I am skeptical of ALL OF IT. Trump claimed corruption in the 2016 election too. In fact, I saw videos of him from 2012 talking about election corruption. Yet he spent 4 years AS PRESIDENT, 2 of them with control of the house and senate, yet never spent a single minute dealing with election corruption.

    And he spent the last 6 months predicting a "rigged" election, yet didn't do a solitary thing in the past 4 years to address the issue. I call bullshit.

    There have been dozens of suits filed (literally), and without exception they've been shot down. The one that wasn't was dealt a death blow yesterday by the Supreme Court.

    Yet, for all the time in front of the camera telling US about the mountains of evidence proving fraud, by the time they actually get to court they water those claims down to the point they've not even alleged fraud in many of the suits they filed. Why? Because you don't need any actual evidence to claim fraud to your supporters through a TV camera, but an actual court isn't going to tolerate it.

    Like it or not... the "Supreme Court" test I mention is accurate. Given a 6-3 majority on his side, if there is ANY corruption in this election big enough to overturn the results, the Supreme Court >WILL< address it.

    And if the Supreme Court lets this election stand, you can be assured, it's legitimate.

    -Hobo

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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Nightfox on Thursday, December 10, 2020 04:59:02
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Nightfox to Hobo on Wed Dec 09 2020 08:45:01

    I'd think so. If there was fraud, then why isn't it being taken seriously? Unless there's some amount of corruption making them turn the other way.
    The other day, I heard Texas has now filed a lawsuit for voting fraud.

    That's my point. The high court leans 6/3 to the right. If they let this election stand you can be assured it's legitimate.

    -Hobo
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Hobo on Thursday, December 10, 2020 03:06:58
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 04:37 am

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Hobo on Wed Dec 09 2020 05:20:13

    I agree completely. Trump was a fraudster when he entered the White House and he'll leave in the same condition.

    It has been decades since any politician or political party has been in tune with my core values enough for me to support, so I didn't have a real preference between Clinton and Trump in 2016. However, the past 4 years hav been hell. His strength is clearly in being a master at dividing people and pitting them against each other, and that is the worst possible quality we n in a president, so I am happy to see him go. Not exactly a Biden supporter, but by golly, in comparison, Biden is a saint.

    Ttyl :-),


    Looking forward to it.

    -Hobo


    bbs.mystic.dog Building World Peace thru Global War bbs.mystic.dog .


    I think you are showing your stripes here, since the Left in general has been much more divisive than any other political power in the Western world since the dawn of the 2008 crisis.

    You didn't use to see people camp├aigning against local businesses and publishers and whatever because they refused to use incorrect english or whatever (aka "inclusive" language).

    You didn't use to see political factions try to shoehorn politics into things that didnߪë't use to be political at all, then blame people who resist such maneuvers of being divisive and such.

    I get not voting Trump (because I am not a fan myself either) but claiming to vote against him because divisiveness issues won't fly with me.

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Thursday, December 10, 2020 09:48:59
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Hobo on Thu Dec 10 2020 03:06 am

    I think you are showing your stripes here, since the Left in general has been much more divisive than any other political power in the Western world since the dawn of the 2008 crisis.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the 2008 crisis.

    See what happens after four years of a man like Donald Trump? I wouldn't have even dreamed anything close to the reality of today.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Thursday, December 10, 2020 13:53:00
    I get not voting Trump (because I am not a fan myself either) but claiming to vote against him because divisiveness issues won't fly with me.

    I suspect he/she cannot remember what things were like before Obama. We
    were a lot less divided before 2008. That division is what caused Trump to
    get elected.

    We were a lot less divided before 1992, also, but that is probably too far
    back for most to remember or care about.


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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Arelor on Thursday, December 10, 2020 17:32:32
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Hobo on Thu Dec 10 2020 03:06:58

    I think you are showing your stripes here, since the Left in general has been much more divisive than any other political power in the Western world since the dawn of the 2008 crisis.

    Am I? Just out of curiosity, tell me what you think those stripes are.


    I get not voting Trump (because I am not a fan myself either) but claiming to vote against him because divisiveness issues won't fly with me.

    lol... I wasn't aware that my reasons for voting the way I do had to pass any "tests" from you.

    -Hobo



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Thursday, December 10, 2020 12:49:50
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Thu Dec 10 2020 09:48 am

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Hobo on Thu Dec 10 2020 03:06 am

    I think you are showing your stripes here, since the Left in general ha been much more divisive than any other political power in the Western world since the dawn of the 2008 crisis.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the 2008 crisis.

    See what happens after four years of a man like Donald Trump? I wouldn't hav even dreamed anything close to the reality of today.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Epithaph on McCoy's Gravestone: I'm dead, Jim!


    The 2008 crisis would be the credit crisis.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.
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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Thursday, December 10, 2020 15:53:13
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 12:49 pm

    The 2008 crisis would be the credit crisis.

    OK.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... 1st rule of intelligent tinkering - save all the parts

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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Dumas Walker on Thursday, December 10, 2020 21:20:16
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to ARELOR on Thu Dec 10 2020 13:53:00

    I suspect he/she cannot remember what things were like before Obama. We were a lot less divided before 2008. That division is what caused Trump to get elected.

    Since you're replying to a message that was directed toward me, It may be that you're assuming I'm the one who can't remember what came before Obama. If that's the case, I assure you, I'm old enough to remember a bit further back than that. My personal memories go back to the Nixon era, but I know a bit of history before that.

    -Hobo

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Thursday, December 10, 2020 21:35:00
    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Haha! Good one!

    Wrong, but funny.



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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Gamgee on Thursday, December 10, 2020 22:08:13
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 09:35 pm

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Haha! Good one!

    Glad you enjoyed it!

    Wrong, but funny.

    Wrong, how?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It works better if you plug it in.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Friday, December 11, 2020 03:07:20
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Thu Dec 10 2020 03:53 pm

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Maybe not directly, but at least in the US, established left is using them as useful idiots in order to undermine the federal government _at the very least_.

    Heck I have come to consider some states where mishandling the riots and protests badly on purpose as to force the feds to solve the issue, so the State could claim Trump is an invertentionist tyrant.
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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Friday, December 11, 2020 10:01:29
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:07 am

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Maybe not directly, but at least in the US, established left is using them as useful idiots in order to undermine the federal government _at the very least_.

    Who are these useful idiots you speak of?

    Heck I have come to consider some states where mishandling the riots and protests badly on purpose as to force the feds to solve the issue, so the State could claim Trump is an invertentionist tyrant.

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not political.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... No user-serviceable parts inside (or outside).

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  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to Al on Friday, December 11, 2020 10:57:00
    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 12:49 pm

    The 2008 crisis would be the credit crisis.

    OK.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.


    LOLOLOLOLOL.... Crap, let me get back up off the floor.....



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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOBO on Friday, December 11, 2020 10:35:00
    I suspect he/she cannot remember what things were like before Obama. We
    were a lot less divided before 2008. That division is what caused Trump to >> get elected.

    Since you're replying to a message that was directed toward me, It may be that >ou're assuming I'm the one who can't remember what came before Obama. If that'
    the case, I assure you, I'm old enough to remember a bit further back than that
    My personal memories go back to the Nixon era, but I know a bit of history be >fore that.

    Yes, in which case you know our division didn't start after 2016.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Friday, December 11, 2020 11:44:00
    I think you are showing your stripes here, since the Left in general has been much more divisive than any other political power in the Western world since the dawn of the 2008 crisis.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the 2008 crisis.
    See what happens after four years of a man like Donald Trump?

    My guess would be the global financial crisis, which started in 2007, and
    was all over the news in 2008.

    What did the Trump administration have to do with a crisis that was
    happening in *2008* that you don't remember? Joe Biden was in Congress
    then, and had been for a very long time. So were Nancy and Chuck and Obama. Trump was not even in politics yet.

    I wouldn't have even dreamed anything close to the reality of today.

    Anything close to what? The pandemic would have happened no matter who was
    in charge, unless they'd come up with some way to convince or force China to keep their wet markets closed after SARS.

    We had cops shooting people they shouldn't, and urban unrest surrounding such incidents (justifiend shootings and not), before Trump. Ferguson, Missouri,
    a well known example, happened in 2014 when Obama was President.

    Beyond that, what bad things have happened in the past four years, that
    *never* happened before, to make reality so horrible?

    Low minority unemployment?
    Jobs moving back to the USA from China?
    Countries in the Middle East recongnizing Israel's right to exist?
    Actual movement towards getting us out of a military conflict that Obama promissed to end but did not?

    Those sure are horrible things.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Friday, December 11, 2020 11:45:00
    See what happens after four years of a man like Donald Trump? I wouldn't hav >> even dreamed anything close to the reality of today.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President. That is
    an old leftist move that has been used many times before.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Friday, December 11, 2020 11:45:00
    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Haha! Good one!

    Wrong, but funny.

    Al believes that "Antifa" is imaginary, like the Easter Bunny. We just
    imagine that Portland is still having trouble with leftist, anti-government thugs.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Friday, December 11, 2020 15:56:13
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Fri Dec 11 2020 10:01 am

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:07 am

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Maybe not directly, but at least in the US, established left is using t as useful idiots in order to undermine the federal government _at the v least_.

    Who are these useful idiots you speak of?

    Heck I have come to consider some states where mishandling the riots an protests badly on purpose as to force the feds to solve the issue, so t State could claim Trump is an invertentionist tyrant.

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not political.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... No user-serviceable parts inside (or outside).


    The useful idiots would be antifas and their supporters. The current Black Lives Matter movement has been built the way it has been built because the founders needed a new way of pushing forward their marxist agenda, and since class struggle is a dead end, identitary politics is the new way to try. This has been declared very much like that so if you want to believe this is not political I don't know what to tell you.
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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 00:24:29
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to HOBO on Fri Dec 11 2020 10:35:00

    Yes, in which case you know our division didn't start after 2016.


    From the invention of politics "they" have been seeking to divide us. So of course you are correct that the division started long before Trump.

    But Trump sure has capitalized on it. He has mastered the art and we are more divided than ever. I would go so far as to say he built his whole base on division.

    -Hobo


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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:26:09
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:56 pm

    Lives Matter movement has been built the way it has been built because the founders needed a new way of pushing forward their marxist agenda, and since class struggle is a dead end, identitary politics is the new way to try. This has been declared very much like that so if you want to believe this is not political I don't know what to tell you.

    There is lots going on in politics that is debatable but the issue here is not political. It's a simple question of justice.

    The question is simple although the answer may not be easy.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:38:01
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Fri Dec 11 2020 11:44 am

    My guess would be the global financial crisis, which started in 2007, and was all over the news in 2008.

    What did the Trump administration have to do with a crisis that was happening in *2008* that you don't remember?

    The Obama administration put in place laws so that wouldn't happen again and Donald Trump removed those laws, so it could in fact happen again.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:40:24
    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to ARELOR on Fri Dec 11 2020 11:45 am

    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President. That is an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Anyone, regardless of political leanings could riot and burn if they were angry enough. That is not leftist.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:43:06
    Re: No leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Fri Dec 11 2020 11:45 am

    Al believes that "Antifa" is imaginary, like the Easter Bunny. We just imagine that Portland is still having trouble with leftist, anti-government thugs.

    Antifa is not imaginary, it is an anti-fascist ideal.

    What is it about anti-fascism that the right hates so much?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:46:13
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:56 pm

    The useful idiots would be antifas and their supporters. The current Black Lives Matter movement has been built the way it has been built because the founders needed a new way of pushing forward their marxist agenda, and since class struggle is a dead end, identitary politics is the new way to try. This has been declared very much like that so if you want to believe this is not political I don't know what to tell you.

    The BLM movement is about justice and racial equality.

    Black people want to feel safe in their own skin. It's not a political movement, it's not left or right.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... I have a dream... C:\ 999,999,999,999 Megs free!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Friday, December 11, 2020 16:56:00
    Heck I have come to consider some states where mishandling the riots and >Ar> protests badly on purpose as to force the feds to solve the issue, so the >Ar> State could claim Trump is an invertentionist tyrant.

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not political.

    Actually, they are. While you might have a point about Minneapolis, the US Pacific NW has been having issues for years. The rioting this Summer in Portland and Seattle may have had something "non-political" to focus on and temporarily draw additional participants, but the groups that have set up
    shop there were there before this Summer, and before November of 2016.

    Their main focus has been protesting capitalism and western society under
    the veil of protesting fascism. So it is economic and political.

    So now it is time for your song and dance about how the things that they support... abandoning capitalism in favor of communism, socialism, anarchy... are not leftist ideas.


    * SLMR 2.1a * All animals are equal, some more than others.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 13:21:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

    See what happens after four years of a man like Donald Trump? I wouldn't hav
    even dreamed anything close to the reality of today.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President.
    That is an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Leftist logic works like this.

    * I don't like you, so I will beat people up. Because you are saying what you are saying, these people are getting beat up. Therefore you are responsible for their injury. See what YOU caused? We need to remove you to prevent the violence that I am inflicting on people.

    Trump didn't go hard enough crushing these fascist wannabe's.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 11, 2020 19:31:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Haha! Good one!
    Wrong, but funny.

    Al believes that "Antifa" is imaginary, like the Easter Bunny.
    We just imagine that Portland is still having trouble with
    leftist, anti-government thugs.

    Yeah, I know. Al has swallowed FAR too much Koolaid already, and is completely delusional. He probably thinks the Dems have nothing to do
    with "BLM" either, and that BLM actually gives a rat's ass about BL's.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Friday, December 11, 2020 19:35:00
    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    Heck I have come to consider some states where mishandling the riots and protests badly on purpose as to force the feds to solve the issue, so the State could claim Trump is an invertentionist tyrant.

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not
    political.

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Thumper on Friday, December 11, 2020 21:09:41
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Thumper to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 10:57 am

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 12:49 pm

    The 2008 crisis would be the credit crisis.

    OK.

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that
    riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and
    the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the
    streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.


    LOLOLOLOLOL.... Crap, let me get back up off the floor.....


    there's no point in talking to this canadian fool. he doesnt know anything about our country. he's trolling people for amusement.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 11, 2020 19:15:22
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Fri Dec 11 2020 04:56 pm

    So now it is time for your song and dance about how the things that they support... abandoning capitalism in favor of communism, socialism, anarchy... are not leftist ideas.

    I don't know what the protests in portland are all about but it looks like anarchy.

    Anarchy is not left either.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Gamgee on Friday, December 11, 2020 19:25:35
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 07:35 pm

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not
    political.

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.

    How is the idea that "black lives matter", political?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Freedom of the press is limited to those who have one.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Gamgee on Saturday, December 12, 2020 02:48:00
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 07:35 pm

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.

    I think he is just partisan.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 02:49:50
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Fri Dec 11 2020 04:26 pm

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:56 pm

    Lives Matter movement has been built the way it has been built because founders needed a new way of pushing forward their marxist agenda, and since class struggle is a dead end, identitary politics is the new way try. This has been declared very much like that so if you want to belie this is not political I don't know what to tell you.

    There is lots going on in politics that is debatable but the issue here is n political. It's a simple question of justice.

    The question is simple although the answer may not be easy.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary


    Whether group A has more or less rights than group B and how to deal with it is a political matter. I'd be a political matter even if it was non-partisan - which it is, since Democrats have based their politics in dividing the population into minorities and then telling them that all their trouble has been caused by heterowhites.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 02:52:32
    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Fri Dec 11 2020 04:40 pm

    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to ARELOR on Fri Dec 11 2020 11:45 am

    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President. That an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Anyone, regardless of political leanings could riot and burn if they were an enough. That is not leftist.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... This login session: $13.99, but for you $11.88


    Yes but I remember one Right riot for every 10 Left aproximately.

    Besides, riots from the right tend to be squeezed early on because the political cost of squeezing a leftist disorder is higher.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 02:53:54
    Re: No leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Fri Dec 11 2020 04:43 pm

    Re: No leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Fri Dec 11 2020 11:45 am

    Al believes that "Antifa" is imaginary, like the Easter Bunny. We just imagine that Portland is still having trouble with leftist, anti-government thugs.

    Antifa is not imaginary, it is an anti-fascist ideal.

    What is it about anti-fascism that the right hates so much?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.


    Antifas are authoritarian leftists that use the cover of anti-fascist to further their agenda.

    Siding with antifas because they are anti-fascist is like siding with Pinochet because he was anti-communist.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 02:56:27
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Fri Dec 11 2020 04:46 pm

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:56 pm

    The useful idiots would be antifas and their supporters. The current Bl Lives Matter movement has been built the way it has been built because founders needed a new way of pushing forward their marxist agenda, and since class struggle is a dead end, identitary politics is the new way try. This has been declared very much like that so if you want to belie this is not political I don't know what to tell you.

    The BLM movement is about justice and racial equality.

    Black people want to feel safe in their own skin. It's not a political movement, it's not left or right.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... I have a dream... C:\ 999,999,999,999 Megs free!


    Issues over rights are political in nature even when they are not partisan, and BLM happens to be heavily partisan.

    If you visit their website it is easy to realize that if they switched their name to something non-race related they would be a very generic communist org.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 03:05:04
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Fri Dec 11 2020 07:15 pm

    Anarchy is not left either.

    Even market anarchists, agorists, anarchocapitalists et all often describe themselves as leftists because they oppose the established order.

    Opposing established order was the definitory trait of the left when the left was invented, and still it for a hell of a lot of people.

    Anarcho-syndicalists that define themselves as orthogonal and non-leftists have the same credibility as Manuel Canduela when he claims his party is pro-democracy. Hint: Canduela's party loves to look back to General Franco's fascism in nostalgia.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 03:08:27
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Gamgee on Fri Dec 11 2020 07:25 pm

    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 07:35 pm

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not
    political.

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.

    How is the idea that "black lives matter", political?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Freedom of the press is limited to those who have one.


    Any idea of group A against group B is political even when it is not partisan (and BLM surely has taken partisan stances).

    But the main issue is that BLM does not stand for Black Lives Matter. It stands for generic Marxism packaged as ratial struggle.

    It is like when every other Identitary Politics advocate founds a Gay Right group, uses it to pursue goals that are not Gay related, and when they find any opposition against their welfare policies or whatever, they accuse their foes of being anti-gay.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 11:07:00
    Al wrote to Gamgee <=-

    These riots were not put on by the left. The core issue is not
    political.

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.

    How is the idea that "black lives matter", political?

    Okay then.... the second one, confirmed.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:30:00
    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President. That is >DW> an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Anyone, regardless of political leanings could riot and burn if they were angr
    enough. That is not leftist.

    It usually is. Union riots, Bolshevik riots, anti-capitalism riots, that-group-that-doesn't-exist-but-somehow-riots riots....


    * SLMR 2.1a * I forget the dream, but I'm missing a pajama button...

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Saturday, December 12, 2020 09:28:00
    Al believes that "Antifa" is imaginary, like the Easter Bunny. We just imagine that Portland is still having trouble with leftist, anti-government thugs.

    Antifa is not imaginary, it is an anti-fascist ideal.

    What is it about anti-fascism that the right hates so much?

    About the idea? Nothing. About the group that supposedly doesn't exist?
    I honesly wouldn't care anything about them if they weren't causing unrest.


    * SLMR 2.1a * This message written with recycled electrons.

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DENNISK on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:31:00
    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President.
    That is an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Leftist logic works like this.

    * I don't like you, so I will beat people up. Because you are saying what you >are saying, these people are getting beat up. Therefore you are responsible >for their injury. See what YOU caused? We need to remove you to prevent the >violence that I am inflicting on people.

    I have noticed some logic here that goes a little similar to that... they themselves aren't beating people up, but they do believe people are getting beat up because of what Trump was saying, and he is responsible instead of
    the unruly dumbasses doing the beating.

    Trump didn't go hard enough crushing these fascist wannabe's.

    Agree 100%. Obama never did anything about them, either, although they
    were not nearly as unruly when he was around.

    I believe it is more difficult in the US to go too hard on them, however.
    I think other countries have a few more liberties at crushing uprisings,
    but that is the price of more freedom here. This Summer was the first time
    in quite a while I have questioned that price.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Maybe I should cut the power before I-- ZZZAAPPOWWWWWW

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:26:00
    I don't know what the protests in portland are all about but it looks like anar
    hy.

    Anarchy is not left either.

    When it is presented as an alternative to capitalism or the established order, it is.

    We've already done this dance. I find the definition for it, which says it
    is usually leftist, and you somehow dance around it, or ignore it. No
    thanks.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Now on CD ROM, classic taglines of the computer era.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Saturday, December 12, 2020 09:42:00
    My guess would be the global financial crisis, which started in 2007, and >DW> was all over the news in 2008.

    What did the Trump administration have to do with a crisis that was
    happening in *2008* that you don't remember?

    The Obama administration put in place laws so that wouldn't happen again and Do
    ald Trump removed those laws, so it could in fact happen again.

    I see you removed the question about your statement that the past four
    years have been horrible, including all of the examples of things that have happened since 2016. No answer there, either, beyond your original random undefined statement about how horrible everything is?


    * SLMR 2.1a * Make BC Great Again! Trump for Premier!!!!

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:14:00
    The BLM movement is about justice and racial equality.

    Black people want to feel safe in their own skin. It's not a political movement
    it's not left or right.

    People who blindly follow the "movement"... yeah, ok, you are probably right about their reasons. But BLM is not a movement, it is a political
    activists group (there is that word, political) that funnels money into
    various political campaigns (there it is again) and causes. This has most recently included funneling money towards a white Democrat running for
    congress when they had a black Democrat running against her in the
    primary... a black Democrat who was more aligned with their alleged beliefs
    and values.

    My point is that it was more important to (try to) elect a Democrat, period, than it was to try to elect someone whose professed beliefs are their own.

    They are 100% a political organization. The fact that they have you fooled into believing they are not means they are doing their job.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:15:00
    Yeah, I know. Al has swallowed FAR too much Koolaid already, and is completely delusional. He probably thinks the Dems have nothing to do
    with "BLM" either, and that BLM actually gives a rat's ass about BL's.

    You have the gift of ESP! :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:17:00
    there's no point in talking to this canadian fool. he doesnt know anything abou
    t our country. he's trolling people for amusement.

    I honestly think he believes he knows, but agree he mostly does not.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....chocolate."

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:22:00
    Whether group A has more or less rights than group B and how to deal with it is
    a political matter. I'd be a political matter even if it was non-partisan - >which it is, since Democrats have based their politics in dividing the >population into minorities and then telling them that all their trouble has >been caused by heterowhites.

    100% correct. Many non-political issues have become politicized by those
    who use "identity politics" to manipulate others.

    I would add to the end of your last sentence, "...and we are the only ones
    who can fix it!"


    * SLMR 2.1a * "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Saturday, December 12, 2020 11:58:59
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Gamgee on Sat Dec 12 2020 02:48 am

    Now you've got me wondering if you're truly ignorant enough to
    actually believe that, or.............. you're just stupid.

    I think he is just partisan.

    I'll reply to all your messages just once. I am (at least trying) to be non-partisan.

    There is lots to get political about this subject but on the face of it, the core issue is not political.

    I am trying to give standing to the core issue, that a black person or anyone really, should not have to fear the police as is the case today. That is an issue that shouldn't exist but it does.

    Sometimes police do kill people who threaten them or others, I accept that.

    So many times police have killed or hurt someone without justification of any kind, black people especially.

    The reason may be racism or just a bad attitude. Those reasons don't justify the reality of these deaths.

    If we can find a way to address that core issue we can leave behind all the politics that ensue.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:04:42
    Re: No leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 12 2020 02:53 am

    Siding with antifas because they are anti-fascist is like siding with Pinochet because he was anti-communist.

    Don't get the idea that I side with antifa because it came up. I don't see antifa as being the big bad thing that you do. Antifa has never been charged or convicted of anything though a few have called themselves antifa.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Love is blind, marriage is the eye-opener.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Gamgee on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:10:22
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Sat Dec 12 2020 11:07 am

    How is the idea that "black lives matter", political?

    Okay then.... the second one, confirmed.

    Is there a point or a discussion you'd like to have?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Almost everything in life is easier to get into than out of.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:24:35
    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:30 am

    It usually is. Union riots, Bolshevik riots, anti-capitalism riots, that-group-that-doesn't-exist-but-somehow-riots riots....

    That group doesn't exist in any real big way, except in Donald Trumps tweets.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:28:53
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:26 am

    We've already done this dance. I find the definition for it, which says it is usually leftist, and you somehow dance around it, or ignore it. No thanks.

    Anarchy is not what the left is upto. The left is not responsible for everything wrong in your world.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:32:33
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sat Dec 12 2020 09:42 am

    I see you removed the question about your statement that the past four years have been horrible,

    I never made such a statement.

    including all of the examples of things that have happened since 2016.

    I have no comment. Should I?

    No answer there, either, beyond your original random undefined statement about how horrible everything is?

    The events of the last year speak for themselves.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Some people are wise; others are otherwise.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:40:44
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:14 am

    People who blindly follow the "movement"... yeah, ok, you are probably right about their reasons.

    That core issue needs to be addressed.

    But BLM is not a movement, it is a political activists group (there is that word, political) that funnels money into various political campaigns (there it is again) and causes.

    It does get political but the core issue is not. Black people should not be in fear for their lives.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Air conditioned environment - Do not open Windows

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:45:49
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pen
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:17 am

    there's no point in talking to this canadian fool. he doesnt know
    anything about our country. he's trolling people for amusement.

    I honestly think he believes he knows, but agree he mostly does not.

    I stand up for black people unjustly killed by police and I am a troll?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 19:05:22
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Sat Dec 12 2020 11:58 am

    I'll reply to all your messages just once. I am (at least trying) to be non-partisan.

    There is lots to get political about this subject but on the face of it, the core issue is not political.

    I am trying to give standing to the core issue, that a black person or anyon really, should not have to fear the police as is the case today. That is an issue that shouldn't exist but it does.

    Sometimes police do kill people who threaten them or others, I accept that.

    So many times police have killed or hurt someone without justification of an kind, black people especially.

    The reason may be racism or just a bad attitude. Those reasons don't justify the reality of these deaths.

    If we can find a way to address that core issue we can leave behind all the politics that ensue.

    Hi,

    I have been to college so let me share my experience. College is usually plagued with activist groups trying to accomplish various things. Often, those things are not the sort of issue you correlate with a political party or a politician. An example would be a student org trying to get propietary software replaced by FOSS in the lab's computers.

    Often, these organizations describe themselves as apolitical.

    The issue is as soon as you are trying to push for a change in the behaviour or management of a community you are becoming politically active. Once you try to set policies to accomplish a goal you are becoming political. It is this simple. If you try to rise awaremess about how bad propietary software is you do so because you expect to eventually get somebody to kick it off from the lab and rule (formally ot not) that FOSS will be used from then on.

    Matters become more complicated because once awareness exists in the community, some political party will show up and offer political representation to this group. When the group accepts the offer (which they usually do) then the group is both political and partisan. The arrangement is usually that the student org tells everybody how great the political party is, and funnels funds or resources into it (often with shady methods). The party offers the group political representation and favor trafficking.

    It becomes even worse when an student group that describes themselves as apolitical or transversal happens to defend a political program that adjusts 100% to that of some political party. I have seen that personally and it is cringeworthy.

    Bottom line, I am aware the KKK exists, profiling exists etc, but trying to rise awareness about it and trying to set policies against such things is a political activity by definition even if the group is not partisan - and as I have said, BLM and friends are partisan as heck. Damn, there are videos of BLM activists putting people on their knees and making them promise they won't vote Republican.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 12, 2020 19:11:50
    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 12 2020 12:24 pm

    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:30 am

    It usually is. Union riots, Bolshevik riots, anti-capitalism riots, that-group-that-doesn't-exist-but-somehow-riots riots....

    That group doesn't exist in any real big way, except in Donald Trumps tweets

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.


    It is certainly a movement. There used to be lots of stickers with the antifa flags around. If you visit certin bars near here you'll find lots of people with those flags tattoed or stamped on their shirts. A lot of people identify themselves as antifa and I don't think such fact is open to discussion. What could be open to discussion is if there is an antifa board calling the shots.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Sunday, December 13, 2020 00:12:02
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 12 2020 07:05 pm

    I have been to college so let me share my experience. College is usually plagued with activist groups trying to accomplish various things. Often, those things are not the sort of issue you correlate with a political party or a politician. An example would be a student org trying to get propietary software replaced by FOSS in the lab's computers.

    Often, these organizations describe themselves as apolitical.

    I am not advocating for any political party or suggesting any kind of activism.

    I do not support the BLM movement itself, it has become too political and it wants to defund the police. That's a really bad idea. I don't think defund the police as they say it means defund the police as we generally understand it but they can clear that up for themselves if they care to.

    I do though, support the idea that black lives do matter. I think that all lives matter so it's not much of a leap for me to say that, or support that cause.

    The issue is as soon as you are trying to push for a change in the behaviour or management of a community you are becoming politically active. Once you try to set policies to accomplish a goal you are becoming political. It is this simple. If you try to rise awaremess about how bad propietary software is you do so because you expect to eventually get somebody to kick it off from the lab and rule (formally ot not) that FOSS will be used from then on.

    I see a need for change but just how that change will happen or if it will happen at all I don't know. I'm not sure what the solution is and I'm a little leery of bringing politicians and lawmakers into it but it is likely to need some political and law "can do" to make any effective change.

    If some kind of change doesn't happen we are likely to see more of the same.

    Matters become more complicated because once awareness exists in the community, some political party will show up and offer political representation to this group. When the group accepts the offer (which they usually do) then the group is both political and partisan. The arrangement is usually that the student org tells everybody how great the political party is, and funnels funds or resources into it (often with shady methods). The party offers the group political representation and favor trafficking.

    This is the reason I am leery of politics and politicians. It could end up being some kind of battle between the left and right that will never be concluded.

    Damn, there are videos of BLM activists putting people on their knees and making them promise they won't vote Republican.

    I have never seen or heard this, maybe because I don't have eyes on the BLM movement. Do you have a link to one of these videos?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Sunday, December 13, 2020 00:31:15
    Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 12 2020 07:11 pm

    That group doesn't exist in any real big way, except in Donald Trumps
    tweets

    It is certainly a movement. There used to be lots of stickers with the antifa flags around. If you visit certin bars near here you'll find lots of people with those flags tattoed or stamped on their shirts. A lot of people identify themselves as antifa and I don't think such fact is open to discussion. What could be open to discussion is if there is an antifa board calling the shots.

    It is not here, it's unheard of. The KKK or the Proud Boys are well known. There is a proud boys organization near me but I don't know what they are all about and they have not been a problem here.

    There is an antifa sign up at joinantifa.org, there is nothing there to join or be a part of.

    There are those who call themselves antifa but there is no antifa leader or organization. These people do not represent the left.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... But that trick never works! -Rocky

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Sunday, December 13, 2020 04:06:43
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Arelor on Sun Dec 13 2020 12:12 am

    I have never seen or heard this, maybe because I don't have eyes on the BLM movement. Do you have a link to one of these videos?

    I donĄ t really save links because those are usually distributed via social media and messaging applications and I use neither. When I get exposed to such content is usually because some friend comes to me with a phone or a computer and tells me "Look at this crap!"


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dumas Walker on Monday, December 14, 2020 00:41:29
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to DENNISK on Sat Dec 12 2020 10:31:00

    And something that was part of reality before Trump was President. That is an old leftist move that has been used many times before.

    Leftist logic works like this.

    * I don't like you, so I will beat people up. Because you are saying what you >are saying, these people are getting beat up. Therefore you are responsible >for their injury. See what YOU caused? We need to remove you to prevent the >violence that I am inflicting on people.

    I have noticed some logic here that goes a little similar to that... they themselves aren't beating people up, but they do believe people are getting beat up because of what Trump was saying, and he is responsible instead of the unruly dumbasses doing the beating.

    Trump didn't go hard enough crushing these fascist wannabe's.

    Agree 100%. Obama never did anything about them, either, although they
    were not nearly as unruly when he was around.

    I believe it is more difficult in the US to go too hard on them, however.
    I think other countries have a few more liberties at crushing uprisings,
    but that is the price of more freedom here. This Summer was the first time in quite a while I have questioned that price.


    The work by making threats of violence, mostly. There is a tactic if warning that if event X goes ahead, there could be violence because of controversy, so to prevent the potential violence, they should remove the controversial speaker etc.

    I think there is good basis to label them a terrorist organisation, as they use violence, and threat of violence to achieve political goals. Declare them the criminal organisation that they are.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Arelor on Monday, December 14, 2020 01:07:55
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 12 2020 02:49:50

    There is lots going on in politics that is debatable but the issue here is n political. It's a simple question of justice.

    The question is simple although the answer may not be easy.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary


    Whether group A has more or less rights than group B and how to deal with it is a political matter. I'd be a political matter even if it was non-partisan population into minorities and then telling them that all their trouble has been caused by heterowhites.
    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    Did they now have explicit Marxist agendas, which have since been dropped from the site after it was exposed?

    They definately act as a political group. They're not a charity, are they?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Al on Monday, December 14, 2020 08:35:00
    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    There are those who call themselves antifa but there is no antifa
    leader or organization. These people do not represent the left.

    Lefties believe that, if they repeat the lie often enough, it becomes truth.

    I have bad news for you: We are on to your lies and no matter how many times you repeat the lie, it will never be true.


    ... Resist everything but temptation.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dr. What on Monday, December 14, 2020 07:27:15
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dr. What to Al on Mon Dec 14 2020 08:35 am

    There are those who call themselves antifa but there is no antifa
    leader or organization. These people do not represent the left.

    Lefties believe that, if they repeat the lie often enough, it becomes truth.

    Where is the antifa headquarters?

    I have bad news for you: We are on to your lies and no matter how many times you repeat the lie, it will never be true.

    That is true for left and right.

    The right today repeats the election fraud lie day after day but it is simply not true, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Please write your complaint in this box [ ] - Legibly

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DENNISK on Monday, December 14, 2020 10:25:00
    The work by making threats of violence, mostly. There is a tactic if warning t
    at if event X goes ahead, there could be violence because of controversy, so to
    prevent the potential violence, they should remove the controversial speaker et
    .

    That is a common tactic on college campuses, for sure. They only want the views of one side represented.

    I think there is good basis to label them a terrorist organisation, as they use
    violence, and threat of violence to achieve political goals. Declare them the >riminal organisation that they are.

    I agree here also. Those that don't agree declare that there is no organization to declare criminal because they don't exist. Public property destroys itself.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Arnold Layne, don't do it again!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Al on Monday, December 14, 2020 13:43:03
    I know people who considered themselves "antifa" before it blew up as a bogeyman term. They are typically far left individuals who are also anticapitalist and believe that fascism must be stopped via force before it can take hold. They mostly started chattering amongst themselves when Trump was elected.

    They did not have any form of organization, and used it more as a tactic or ethos. You'd have small groups organizing in towns and possibly coordination between those groups from time to time, but there wasn't any kind of national organization.

    I largely lost touch with them because a lot of them were conspiracy nuts (they didn't like getting called out and accused me of being a Trump supporter, which was bizarre if you know my particular political leanings) and I'd jokingly accuse them of wanting to burn down a Starbucks everytime they didn't get their way.

    I think one of them showed up for protests after moving to Seattle, but the rest didn't do jack-squat.

    (This is speaking as a democrat-socialist type of guy who thinks the most vocal progressives make a bad name for the rest of us.)



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.19.1)
    * Origin: cortex (55:1/101)
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Monday, December 14, 2020 17:14:00
    Al wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dr. What to Al on Mon Dec 14 2020 08:35 am

    There are those who call themselves antifa but there is no antifa
    leader or organization. These people do not represent the left.

    Lefties believe that, if they repeat the lie often enough, it becomes truth.

    Where is the antifa headquarters?

    Stupid question, and typical Lefty response, attempting to
    divert/distract.

    Where is the KKK headquarters?
    Where is the BLM headquarters?
    Where is the Aryan Nation headquarters?
    Where is the Mafia headquarters?

    Do you deny that any/all of those organizations exist?
    How come you can't tell me where their HQ's are?

    You're a hypocrite, just like all Lefties.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Monday, December 14, 2020 16:34:00
    There are those who call themselves antifa but there is no antifa
    leader or organization. These people do not represent the left.

    Lefties believe that, if they repeat the lie often enough, it becomes truth.

    Where is the antifa headquarters?

    Their organization is not top-down, it is vertical. They are an
    organization in the sense that they make a call out (on social media, the
    dark web, etc.) for members to assemble and they do. It wouldn't be right
    for an anarchist group to have a single leader.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A momentary lapse of reason that binds a life to a life..

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Gamgee on Monday, December 14, 2020 19:36:04
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Gamgee to Al on Mon Dec 14 2020 05:14 pm

    Stupid question, and typical Lefty response, attempting to divert/distract.

    I'm trying to get an answer. I stated that antifa doesn't have any leadership or organization. It doesn't. If I am wrong maybe you can point it out to me.

    Where is the KKK headquarters?
    Where is the BLM headquarters?
    Where is the Aryan Nation headquarters?
    Where is the Mafia headquarters?

    Do you deny that any/all of those organizations exist?
    How come you can't tell me where their HQ's are?

    The existence of those groups is well known. There are some who call themselves antifa but there is no organized antifa group.

    You're a hypocrite, just like all Lefties.

    There is no hypocrisy in anything I have said. I have looked for this group to find out who they are, what they want, what they are doing but I can find no such group.


    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Discoveries are often made by not following instructions.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Al on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 21:50:00
    Al wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Gamgee to Al on Mon Dec 14 2020 05:14 pm

    Stupid question, and typical Lefty response, attempting to divert/distract.

    I'm trying to get an answer. I stated that antifa doesn't have any leadership or organization. It doesn't. If I am wrong maybe you can
    point it out to me.

    Where is the KKK headquarters?
    Where is the BLM headquarters?
    Where is the Aryan Nation headquarters?
    Where is the Mafia headquarters?

    Do you deny that any/all of those organizations exist?
    How come you can't tell me where their HQ's are?

    The existence of those groups is well known. There are some who call themselves antifa but there is no organized antifa group.

    You're a hypocrite, just like all Lefties.

    There is no hypocrisy in anything I have said. I have looked for this group to find out who they are, what they want, what they are doing but
    I can find no such group.

    Antifa themselves identify as antifa.

    I think that is evidence that a group of people called antifa exists.

    There is literally a group of people marching under a banner, with a shared name and ideas, and you're saying the group doesn't exist?

    If you are going to spread lies, at least spread plausible ones.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 07:20:00
    Al wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Stupid question, and typical Lefty response, attempting to divert/distract.

    I'm trying to get an answer. I stated that antifa doesn't have
    any leadership or organization. It doesn't. If I am wrong maybe
    you can point it out to me.

    Where is the KKK headquarters?
    Where is the BLM headquarters?
    Where is the Aryan Nation headquarters?
    Where is the Mafia headquarters?

    Do you deny that any/all of those organizations exist?
    How come you can't tell me where their HQ's are?

    The existence of those groups is well known. There are some who
    call themselves antifa but there is no organized antifa group.

    Right. You didn't answer my question above about where are the HQ's
    for these groups. Try again, without attempting to divert/deceive.

    You're a hypocrite, just like all Lefties.

    There is no hypocrisy in anything I have said. I have looked for
    this group to find out who they are, what they want, what they
    are doing but I can find no such group.

    Sure there is. You ask "where is the HQ for Antifa?", but will not
    answer the same question back at you, regarding other groups, because
    that would remove the entire basis for your claims.

    So, try again. Just straight answers to simple questions.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DEEPTHAW on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 13:06:00
    I know people who considered themselves "antifa" before it blew up as a bogeyma
    term. They are typically far left individuals who are also anticapitalist and
    elieve that fascism must be stopped via force before it can take hold. They mos
    ly started chattering amongst themselves when Trump was elected.

    They somehow equate capitalism with fascism, no?

    <SNIP>

    (This is speaking as a democrat-socialist type of guy who thinks the most vocal
    progressives make a bad name for the rest of us.)

    Speaking as a non-democrat-socialist, I enjoyed your response. Most of
    what you understand about antifa is what I also understand about it. It
    will be interesting to see if Al responds to your message, and how.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Hey, how 'bout a fandango ?!?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 16:33:52
    On 12/15/2020 2:06 pm Dumas Walker said...
    They somehow equate capitalism with fascism, no?

    Hard to tell. They mostly socialist, but ask a different person and you'd get a different answer. Capitalism was either a gateway to fascism via corporate power, or it was a different evil that they may as well smash at the same time. I do feel like it was two different groups (the socialists and the antifa) who kind of comingled until they were indistinguishable.

    By and large it was disaffected youths who were angry at the state of the world and wanted a revolution.

    The antifa creed of sorts I saw them espousing at the earliest was a basic belief that fascism is real, it's an existential threat, and it can happen here - therefore freedom of speech and nonviolence can be disposed of if the purpose is keeping fascism from taking hold because the risks are too great.

    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.19.1)
    * Origin: cortex (55:1/101)
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Gamgee on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 17:22:56
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Gamgee to Al on Tue Dec 15 2020 07:20 am

    The existence of those groups is well known. There are some who
    call themselves antifa but there is no organized antifa group.

    Right. You didn't answer my question above about where are the HQ's
    for these groups. Try again, without attempting to divert/deceive.

    I don't associate with those groups. I don't know where the headquarters is. Groups like the KKK are old news and today support Donald Trump. There are web pages where you can get more info on those group and get involved.

    There is a web page for the proud boys also where you can get info and join up.

    There is no hypocrisy in anything I have said. I have looked for
    this group to find out who they are, what they want, what they
    are doing but I can find no such group.

    Sure there is. You ask "where is the HQ for Antifa?", but will not
    answer the same question back at you, regarding other groups, because that would remove the entire basis for your claims.

    Asking where is the antifa HQ is not hypocrisy, it is a question. There is no antifa HQ because it is not an organized group.

    Some do call themselves antifa but I don't know what that is or what it means to them since there is no antifa group. Not in any organized way.

    Members of the KKK and proud boys have been charged. We know who they are because they are organized.

    So, try again. Just straight answers to simple questions.

    All the above is straight simple fact.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Black holes are where God divided by zero.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dennisk on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 17:54:04
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dennisk to Al on Tue Dec 15 2020 09:50 pm

    Antifa themselves identify as antifa.

    The only antifa I have been able to find in any real way is in Portland.

    The problems in Portland are very different from the BLM protests and riots around all that. It's not the same thing at all.

    The riots around BLM are mixed up with right/left politics.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... The dead don't come back to life? Be here at quitting time.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to deepthaw on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 08:20:51
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: deepthaw to Dumas Walker on Tue Dec 15 2020 04:33 pm

    The antifa creed of sorts I saw them espousing at the earliest was a basic belief
    that fascism is real, it's an existential threat, and it can happen here - therefor
    freedom of speech and nonviolence can be disposed of if the purpose is keeping fasc
    from taking hold because the risks are too great.

    Aka:

    We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and we are
    justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise of
    fascism.

    There is no contradiction in that.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Al on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 12:28:00
    Al wrote to Dr. What <=-

    The right today repeats the election fraud lie day after day but it is simply not true, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

    Ahh... Another low information voter who only watches CNN and other leftie "news" sources.

    So the literally hundreds of signed affidavits (meaning those people can be punished for lieing) of people first hand witnessing irregularities mean nothing?

    So the first hand accounts of the Republican poll watchers being forced out
    (in voilation of state and federal laws) mean nothing?

    So the proven error rate of the Dominion voting machines (far in excess of state and federal laws) mean nothing? Since you have such low information about the election, this means that upwards of 68% of the ballots were manually changed, usually by offshore entities, because they needed to be "fixed".

    So the statistically improbable numbers of the votes mean nothing?

    To top it all off, the Leftie "leaders" refused to 1) charge the people who violated the election rules, 2) investigate any of these claims and, 3)
    in some cases **destroy** evidence even though there was an on-going court case.

    Lefties like you bury their heads in the sand and just yell "la, la, la, la" when they encounter facts that go counter to their narrative.


    ... Canadian DOS prompt: EH?\>
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dennisk on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 12:45:00
    Dennisk wrote to Al <=-

    If you are going to spread lies, at least spread plausible ones.

    Lefties believe that if they repeat the lie enough times it becomes truth.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dr. What on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 13:55:21
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dr. What to Al on Wed Dec 16 2020 12:28 pm

    The right today repeats the election fraud lie day after day but it
    is simply not true, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

    Ahh... Another low information voter who only watches CNN and other leftie "news" sources.

    This is exactly what the right is saying, is it not?

    So the literally hundreds of signed affidavits (meaning those people can be punished for lieing) of people first hand witnessing irregularities mean nothing?

    Rudy went into court with these affidavits and the judge asked him "are you alleging fraud", and his answer was no.

    So the first hand accounts of the Republican poll watchers being forced out (in voilation of state and federal laws) mean nothing?

    This was also in court. It was thrown out as baseless.

    So the proven error rate of the Dominion voting machines (far in excess of state and federal laws) mean nothing? Since you have such low information about the election, this means that upwards of 68% of the ballots were manually changed, usually by offshore entities, because they needed to be "fixed".

    It has not been proven. Those voting machines have been looked at. The GOP was given access to look them over but nothing has come from that.

    So the statistically improbable numbers of the votes mean nothing?

    After seeing what has happened the last four years it is no wonder so many tuned out to vote this year.

    To top it all off, the Leftie "leaders" refused to 1) charge the people who violated the election rules, 2) investigate any of these claims and, 3) in some cases **destroy** evidence even though there was an on-going court case.

    People who violated election laws have been charged and that will continue. States run elections and courts, not the left. This was a free and fair election as has been happening for many years in the US.

    Lefties like you bury their heads in the sand and just yell "la, la, la, la" when they encounter facts that go counter to their narrative.

    The left is not the cause of everything wrong in your life.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Remember when safe sex meant not getting caught?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DEEPTHAW on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 13:25:00
    The antifa creed of sorts I saw them espousing at the earliest was a basic >belief that fascism is real, it's an existential threat, and it can happen here
    - therefore freedom of speech and nonviolence can be disposed of if the purpose
    is keeping fascism from taking hold because the risks are too great.

    Well, there is no doubt it has been real in the past and could be real in
    the present and future. However, disposing of freedom of speech and nonviolence paves the way to make another rise of fascism much, much easier rather than more difficult. That, I believe, is a large fallicy in their thinking and methods.

    A lack of freedom of speech and a rise in violence are friends of fascism,
    not enemies.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Dude! We have the power supreme!" - Butthead

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 13:47:00
    I don't associate with those groups. I don't know where the headquarters is. Gr

    And most of us don't associate with Antifa, so how would we know where
    there HQ is? You did ask.

    Asking where is the antifa HQ is not hypocrisy, it is a question. There is no tifa HQ because it is not an organized group.

    See above... we don't associate with them so we'd have no way of verifying
    that statement.

    You seem to have ignored deepthaw's response to your claims that antifa is
    not an organization.


    * SLMR 2.1a * L&N -- The Old Reliable

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 18:36:44
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Wed Dec 16 2020 01:47 pm

    And most of us don't associate with Antifa, so how would we know where there HQ is? You did ask.

    You claim it is a thing, if so where is it, what is it?

    I don't see an antifa group we can investigate or charge with anything in the same way as groups like the KKK or the proud boys.

    You seem to have ignored deepthaw's response to your claims that antifa is not an organization.

    I read deepthaw's response but I didn't make any further comment on it.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Math problems? Call 1-800-10*(24+13)-(64-16)/2^14E2.

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  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Dumas Walker on Thursday, December 17, 2020 00:17:53
    On 12/16/2020 2:47 pm Dumas Walker said...
    You seem to have ignored deepthaw's response to your claims that antifa is not an organization.

    it really depends on your definition of organization. there's no central power structure. you have people who decide to organize, and antifa is a set of tactics and beliefs they take. they may communicate between groups, but a group isn't going to encompass much more than a city. nobody's deciding who is and isn't allowed to call themselves 'antifa.'



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.19.1)
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Thursday, December 17, 2020 05:32:45
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dr. What on Wed Dec 16 2020 01:55 pm

    States run elections and courts, not the left. This was a free and fair election as has been happening for many years in the US.

    Somehow you have reminded me of Basque elections.

    Maybe the counting was fair but it was certainly not free. Kale Borroka dudes would hunt down and beat the candidates that didn't follow the acceptable party line. If your party didn't endorse the Marxist Republic of Basque Lands you basically had a harder time than everybody else because you risked a brick in your teeth everybody you opened your mouth.

    Violent BLM activists, antifas and whatever you want to call them sound to me a lot like an embrionary American Kale Borroka. Which is what I find deeply troubling.

    The main reason voter fraud conspiracies are so credible is because if the left is willing to sponsor this sort of activities, it is easy to believe they are willing to rig vote counts or do whatever it takes to grab the throne. I don't doubt for a single second they wanted to rig the process. The real question is whether they had the capability to do so :-)

    Whether there was a lot, a little or no organized rigging, I am confident a lot of spontaneous irregularities will be found and heads will roll.

    BTW I have heard Zuckerberg is gonna be raped in prison because he's been found funding partisan "non-profits" with dark money. Rejoice, for the end of Facebook is night :-P


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:02:00
    You claim it is a thing, if so where is it, what is it?

    As I (and deepthaw and others) have explained, they are not a top-down organization, so there is not necessarily a "where is it?" It is a
    vertically organized group, meaning they have no central leadership figure. Someone sends out the message, on social media or the dark web, and their
    peeps just show up.

    I don't see an antifa group we can investigate or charge with anything in the me way as groups like the KKK or the proud boys.

    The KKK and, I assume, Proud Boys are organizations with a leadership structure. Because a group has no leadership structure does not mean that
    they don't exist, especially if they are a group that advocates anarchy... having a central leader for a true anarchy group would be a bit
    hypocritical, no?

    I read deepthaw's response but I didn't make any further comment on it.

    Because it made sense and you realized you never convince him that there is
    no such thing as Antifa groups?


    * SLMR 2.1a * Keep your stick on the ice

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    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:48:00
    We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and we >re
    justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise
    of
    fascism.

    There is no contradiction in that.

    That is pretty much it.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Einstein? Who's he? Another troublemaker?" - H.Baines

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:50:00
    The right today repeats the election fraud lie day after day but it is simply not true, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

    Ahh... Another low information voter who only watches CNN and other leftie "news" sources.

    He might be a low information voter, but he is not a US voter so it isn't
    all bad. :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * Oooo, Better run, Mr. Wino!!!

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:55:00
    The main reason voter fraud conspiracies are so credible is because if the left
    is willing to sponsor this sort of activities, it is easy to believe they are >willing to rig vote counts or do whatever it takes to grab the throne. I don't >doubt for a single second they wanted to rig the process. The real question is >whether they had the capability to do so :-)

    It is difficult to prove that they are "sponsoring" the activities of
    bullys and rioters, etc., but they are being very tolerant of it. Since
    the election has been decided, it is not in the news as much but it is
    still happening in cities that have ongoing issues with these folks (and an ongoing record of not cracking down on them).


    * SLMR 2.1a * Spelling is a sober man's game

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Thursday, December 17, 2020 17:23:47
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Thu Dec 17 2020 05:32 am

    Somehow you have reminded me of Basque elections.

    Maybe the counting was fair but it was certainly not free. Kale Borroka dudes would hunt down and beat the candidates that didn't follow the acceptable party line. If your party didn't endorse the Marxist Republic of Basque Lands you basically had a harder time than everybody else because you risked a brick in your teeth everybody you opened your mouth.

    I have no idea what you speak of as regards Basque elections or Kale Borroka dudes so I can't join that discussion.

    Violent BLM activists, antifas and whatever you want to call them sound to me a lot like an embrionary American Kale Borroka. Which is what I find deeply troubling.

    The BLM protests were not an armed standoff, it was simply a march, a large one, in many cities across America.

    It became a right/left issue and that is when the violence/looting/riots started.

    That may remain an issue or not. Time will tell.

    The main reason voter fraud conspiracies are so credible is because if the left is willing to sponsor this sort of activities, it is easy to believe they are willing to rig vote counts or do whatever it takes to grab the throne. I don't doubt for a single second they wanted to rig the process. The real question is whether they had the capability to do so :-)

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now and never was, sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    Whether there was a lot, a little or no organized rigging, I am confident a lot of spontaneous irregularities will be found and heads will roll.

    There likely are irregularities and when found solutions are needed for them. I see no rigging of elections and not even talk of such things until Donald Trump was at the podium. He was speaking that way even before any vote took place.

    BTW I have heard Zuckerberg is gonna be raped in prison because he's been found funding partisan "non-profits" with dark money. Rejoice, for the end of Facebook is night :-P

    I don't subscribe to FB so I am not aware of anything good or bad about it.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Synonym: A word you use when you can't spell the other.

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Thursday, December 17, 2020 17:37:59
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Thu Dec 17 2020 12:02 pm

    The KKK and, I assume, Proud Boys are organizations with a leadership structure. Because a group has no leadership structure does not mean that they don't exist, especially if they are a group that advocates anarchy... having a central leader for a true anarchy group would be a bit hypocritical, no?

    We all know what the KKK is all about. The Proud Boys are a western chauvinist group. Whatever that is. The greatest fraternal organization in the world they say. They are organized groups.

    So there is no group but these "antifa" exist. I don't see anti fascism or any antifa (whatever that is) is any big threat. Just because Donald Trump tweets "Antifa" or "Obamagate", doesn't make it a so.

    I read deepthaw's response but I didn't make any further comment on
    it.

    Because it made sense and you realized you never convince him that there is no such thing as Antifa groups?

    Deepthaw's explanation of the group "antifa" wasn't much different than mine.

    If I have a comment to make, I will make it. If I don't, I won't.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Warranty (n.): See Disclaimer.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 18, 2020 08:45:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    He might be a low information voter, but he is not a US voter so it
    isn't all bad. :)

    Well, that's good news, at least.

    I wish these socialists would keep their failed systems in their own
    countries and not export it to others.


    ... My Body's here, but my Mind's on vacation.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Friday, December 18, 2020 08:53:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to AL <=-

    You seem to have ignored deepthaw's response to your claims that antifa
    is not an organization.

    Lefties like to do that: Avoid answering because they would have to admit
    that they are wrong. And Lefties can never admit that they are wrong.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Friday, December 18, 2020 10:30:08
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Arelor on Thu Dec 17 2020 05:23 pm

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now and neve was, sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    If you look closely at the matter, sides have been clearly taken in this regard.

    When the Right was asking for thigns to stop, the Left was tagging the taking of neighbourhoods by rioters as peaceful protests. When the Right was deploying policies to bring disorder to an end, the Left was shielding their rioter stormtroopers from these policies.

    The occupation in Seattle only ended when the useful idiots started bothering the local politicians and local Dems decided it were more trouble than they were worth, not before.

    As I have said, the situation looked like local powers were trying to bait the federal government into doing something drastic to restore order, in order to blame Washington for the consequences.

    So given this sort of scenario, it is easy to believe Democrats were willing to do things such as rigging election software, shipping fraudulent ballots and, in general, doing whatever it takes to grab the throne - I think we have sufficient evidence of WILL already.

    Now, did they have the MEANS? Yesterday the showed me a video of a witness declaring in front of senators and giving a list of names of people aware of irregularities and explaining the sort of weird stuff she witnessed. If she is proved to be lying she will be grinded into mincemeat, so at the very least these declarations (and a lot of others) should be carefully considered. So, in my opinion, if they weren't able to pull a megafraud at national level, my hunch is that a number of people actually tried to rig the thing in a number
    of counties.

    Which is why a number of States is unwilling to certify the results of their own elections and why the electoral process is far from over to this day.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Friday, December 18, 2020 10:32:39
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Thu Dec 17 2020 05:37 pm

    So there is no group but these "antifa" exist. I don't see anti fascism or a antifa (whatever that is) is any big threat. Just because Donald Trump tweet

    I invite you to come to the Basque region waving a People's Party flag. If you manage to survive the experience you will know which kind of threat so-called anti-fascist groups are.

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Friday, December 18, 2020 16:59:14
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 18 2020 10:30 am

    When the Right was asking for thigns to stop, the Left was tagging the taking of neighbourhoods by rioters as peaceful protests. When the Right was deploying policies to bring disorder to an end, the Left was shielding their rioter stormtroopers from these policies.

    Was the right asking things to stop? Was the left asking things to continue?

    The protests were not about the left or right. It was a BLM protest largely about black people being killed at the hands of police without justification.

    In the early days these protests turned into riots in some cases that caused large amounts of death and destruction. This was not planned by the left. The root cause of those protests needs to be addressed so the BLM movement doesn't need to march in the streets in the hopes that they will not be killed by police.

    Police departments need to take seriously the actions of police officers and the justice system the consequences of bad behaviour or we continue as it is.

    The occupation in Seattle only ended when the useful idiots started bothering the local politicians and local Dems decided it were more trouble than they were worth, not before.

    The city of Seattle choose to give it time to settle down. I don't know if that was the right thing to do or not but it is no longer an issue.

    As I have said, the situation looked like local powers were trying to bait the federal government into doing something drastic to restore order, in order to blame Washington for the consequences.

    States have the option to call in federal help if they want/need it. No one is baiting anyone.

    So given this sort of scenario, it is easy to believe Democrats were willing to do things such as rigging election software, shipping fraudulent ballots and, in general, doing whatever it takes to grab the throne - I think we have sufficient evidence of WILL already.

    I don't know what in the above leads you to believe "Democrats were willing to do things such as rigging election software" or "shipping fraudulent ballots".

    There is NO evidence.

    Now, did they have the MEANS? Yesterday the showed me a video of a witness declaring in front of senators and giving a list of names of people aware of irregularities and explaining the sort of weird stuff she witnessed. If she is proved to be lying she will be grinded into mincemeat, so at the very least these declarations (and a lot of others) should be carefully considered. So, in my opinion, if they weren't able to pull a megafraud at national level, my hunch is that a number of people actually tried to rig the thing in a number of counties.

    There are many videos showing many things. What we don't have is proof.

    Which is why a number of States is unwilling to certify the results of their own elections and why the electoral process is far from over to this day.

    Every state has certified the election results, the electoral college has certified the election results.

    The republicans will continue to deny the truth but it has been established.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Friday, December 18, 2020 17:00:48
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Fri Dec 18 2020 10:32 am

    So there is no group but these "antifa" exist. I don't see anti
    fascism or a antifa (whatever that is) is any big threat. Just because
    Donald Trump tweet

    I invite you to come to the Basque region waving a People's Party flag. If you manage to survive the experience you will know which kind of threat so-called anti-fascist groups are.

    Here in the west at least, it hasn't come to that. Yet.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... All answers questioned here.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Friday, December 18, 2020 11:16:00
    The KKK and, I assume, Proud Boys are organizations with a leadership structure. Because a group has no leadership structure does not mean that
    they don't exist, especially if they are a group that advocates anarchy..
    having a central leader for a true anarchy group would be a bit hypocritical, no?

    So there is no group but these "antifa" exist. I don't see anti fascism or any
    ntifa (whatever that is) is any big threat. Just because Donald Trump tweets "
    tifa" or "Obamagate", doesn't make it a so.

    Groups exists. They do not have an organized leadership structure.
    Neither do most unruly mobs but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

    The difference is that your definition of a group is that they must have a leader. Mine does not.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Friday, December 18, 2020 16:06:00
    The BLM protests were not an armed standoff, it was simply a march, a large one
    in many cities across America.

    It became a right/left issue and that is when the violence/looting/riots starte
    .

    False. In most places, the destruction of public and private property
    started on Night 1.

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now and never s, sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    Never has?

    Please educate yourself on the Daley political machine and what it got up
    to in the 1950's-'60's. Whether they were "left" is debatable, but Daley was both Chicago mayor and head of the local Democratic Party. Daley's machine
    is where the old saying about "the dead vote in Chicago" came from.

    That is not the only example, but probably the most famous one.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Friday, December 18, 2020 16:18:00
    He might be a low information voter, but he is not a US voter so it isn't all bad. :)

    Well, that's good news, at least.

    I wish these socialists would keep their failed systems in their own countries and not export it to others.

    I wish they would also. I also wish they'd stop presenting their bad information as fact to voters who are from the US.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 19, 2020 03:12:14
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Arelor on Fri Dec 18 2020 04:59 pm

    The protests were not about the left or right. It was a BLM protest largely about black people being killed at the hands of police without justification

    You can keep saying that BLM or allegations of racism are not political or partisan, but management of policies in sociaty is a political matter by definition.

    You remind me of students who build orgs for pushing programs that are clearly Left or Right aligned and then try to convince everybody the org is non partisan.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Saturday, December 19, 2020 03:15:10
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Arelor on Fri Dec 18 2020 04:59 pm

    I don't know what in the above leads you to believe "Democrats were willing do things such as rigging election software" or "shipping fraudulent ballots

    If you are willing to stir your pawns into breaking havoc, burning and looting, and bringing unstability to society in general... then there is basically nothing you are not going to be willing to do to achieve your political goals.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 19, 2020 12:10:10
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to DR. WHAT on Fri Dec 18 2020 04:18 pm

    He might be a low information voter, but he is not a US voter so
    it isn't all bad. :)

    Well, that's good news, at least.

    I wish these socialists would keep their failed systems in their own
    countries and not export it to others.

    I wish they would also. I also wish they'd stop presenting their bad information as fact to voters who are from the US.



    i think al is just mad at his own country and projecting it at the usa. from what i've read about canada and from what i've heard from the hundreds of canadians i've spoken to over the years, the canadian system is meant to keep you down. and when you get REAL down you can't work your way back up. on top of that they take in a lot of immigrants.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Saturday, December 19, 2020 10:22:00
    The protests were not about the left or right. It was a BLM protest largely >> about black people being killed at the hands of police without justification

    You can keep saying that BLM or allegations of racism are not political or partisan, but management of policies in sociaty is a political matter by definition.

    His statements are also misleading. In this area, the "peaceful protest"
    riots were over a sad state of affairs, but it was a sad state of affairs
    that could have been avoided had someone in the apartment not shot at the police first.

    Although several other aspects of the case were at various times disputed,
    that one (that the police were shot at first) has never been one of them.

    You remind me of students who build orgs for pushing programs that are clearly >Left or Right aligned and then try to convince everybody the org is non >partisan.

    Yes, he does.


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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Saturday, December 19, 2020 16:13:47
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Fri Dec 18 2020 04:06 pm

    False. In most places, the destruction of public and private property started on Night 1.

    Truth. The majority of protests have been peaceful. That's just a fact.

    On night one in Minneapolis it turned into a riot and there was large amounts of destruction. The police building was destroyed. There were riots and destruction in other places too, I know this. The fact is that most protests have been peaceful.

    You look at these riots as if that was the problem but that is the result of the problem.

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without justification. If we can solve that problem these protests and riots will stop.

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now
    and never was, sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    Never has?

    Please educate yourself on the Daley political machine and what it got up to in the 1950's-'60's. Whether they were "left" is debatable, but Daley was both Chicago mayor and head of the local Democratic Party. Daley's machine is where the old saying about "the dead vote in Chicago" came from.

    That's interesting but that is a whole different thing from another place and time.

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now and never was sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... My modem isn't slow- it's "baudily challenged!"

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Saturday, December 19, 2020 16:23:22
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 19 2020 03:12 am

    The protests were not about the left or right. It was a BLM protest
    largely about black people being killed at the hands of police without
    justification

    You can keep saying that BLM or allegations of racism are not political or partisan, but management of policies in sociaty is a political matter by definition.

    The allegation that black people are being killed by police without justification is not political. That is the root cause of the protests and riots that followed.

    If we want the protests and riots to stop we need to solve that issue.

    You remind me of students who build orgs for pushing programs that are clearly Left or Right aligned and then try to convince everybody the org is non partisan.

    I'm almost certain the left/right or republican/democrat can agree on what the problem is here. If we can't agree on the problem the solution is not going to arrive any time soon.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Captain, he's thinking about my breasts again! - Deanna Troy

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Saturday, December 19, 2020 16:25:04
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sat Dec 19 2020 03:15 am

    If you are willing to stir your pawns into breaking havoc, burning and looting, and bringing unstability to society in general... then there is basically nothing you are not going to be willing to do to achieve your political goals.

    I have no pawns to stir into anything. I have no political agenda.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... for it is the doom of men that they forget.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:04:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to AL <=-

    The difference is that your definition of a group is that they must
    have a leader. Mine does not.

    Standard Leftie debate tactic: Redefine things to match the Leftie's argument.


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Al on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:22:00
    Al wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Truth. The majority of protests have been peaceful. That's just a fact.

    Only if you get your "news" from CNN.

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without justification.

    False Leftie Narrative. The facts don't show anything of the kind.

    Of course, to the Lefties feelings matter more than facts and any facts that don't go along with the Narrative must be false.


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Al on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:23:00
    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    I have no pawns to stir into anything. I have no political agenda.

    That has to be the most disingenuous thing I have ever heard.

    Which says something having watched so much political BS over the last 4 years.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:11:15
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 19 2020 04:13 pm

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without justification. If we can solve that problem these protests and riots will st

    Thing is, the protests are not about racism at all. They use racism as an excuse but they are clearly aimed at breaking havoc against the federal government.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:48:00
    You look at these riots as if that was the problem but that is the result of t
    problem.

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without justificat
    on. If we can solve that problem these protests and riots will stop.

    No, I look at them as BEING a problem and the result of one. The thing is
    that riots didn't have to be the result. Louisville had "peaceful protest" riots and looting, while other cities in the area had actual peaceful protests. Areas that are more "tollerant" had trouble. Areas that are not did not.

    I believe the actual peaceful protesters have a right to protest. Unlike with your PM, we've not had as much of a gag put on our free speach here. I do
    not believe the rioters and looters had any right to do what they did.

    Never has?

    Please educate yourself on the Daley political machine and what it got up
    to in the 1950's-'60's. Whether they were "left" is debatable, but Daley was both Chicago mayor and head of the local Democratic Party. Daley's machine is where the old saying about "the dead vote in Chicago" came from.

    That's interesting but that is a whole different thing from another place and t
    me.

    But you did say "never" which incompasses all different places and times.

    I find the voter fraud conspiracies incredible. The left is not now and never w
    s sponsoring these sorts of activities.

    And, again, you say "now and never has." Again, educate yourself.
    Probably hard to do in Canada as your PM has probably made finding certain information illegal because it might hurt someone's feelings.


    * SLMR 2.1a * The 4 major food groups: fast, frozen, junk, & spoiled.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sunday, December 20, 2020 10:50:00
    i think al is just mad at his own country and projecting it at the usa. from wh
    t i've read about canada and from what i've heard from the hundreds of canadian
    i've spoken to over the years, the canadian system is meant to keep you down. >and when you get REAL down you can't work your way back up. on top of that they
    take in a lot of immigrants.

    From what I can tell, Al isn't mad at his own country because he enjoys
    being blind to things that the "non-right" does.

    "There is no such thing as fake news, unless that news is something bad about Trudeau or the US Democrats."
    "There is no such thing as vote fraud, and never has been, unless it involves Bad Orange Man and the Russians."
    "All political extremists are bad, but only 'the right' has extremists. Leftists riots are always the fault of 'the right' and, besides, 'the left' never riots and leftist groups don't exist.'
    "Groups only exist if they have a well defined leadership structure, and
    only if I have heard of them."

    For some reason, reading some of the things he says reminds me of the commandments in "Animal Farm" that keep changing and become contradictory.

    He's pretty predictable.


    * SLMR 2.1a * (a) Fast, (b) Reliable, (c) Inexpensive - Pick Two.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:44:00
    The allegation that black people are being killed by police without justificat
    n is not political. That is the root cause of the protests and riots that foll
    ed.

    If we want the protests and riots to stop we need to solve that issue.

    The incidents that lead to the most local "peaceful protest" riots both involved the person being killed, or their boyfriend, shooting at the
    Police first. The Police returned fire. Those leading the "peaceful
    protest" riots believe that returning fire when you are fired upon is not justified if you are a cop and the person firing at you is not white. That
    is the root cause of many businesses in downtown Louisville, Kentucky,
    either being looted, destroyed, or boarded up this Summer.

    That is, that is the supposed root cause. The actual root cause is that
    people on the not right and not center portion of the political spectrum
    saw an opportunity to start trouble... but that cannot really be true
    because the left never does stuff like that. They are always peaceful.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 13:40:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to MRO <=-

    i think al is just mad at his own country and projecting it at the usa. from wh

    t i've read about canada and from what i've heard from the hundreds of canadian

    i've spoken to over the years, the canadian system is meant to keep you down.
    and when you get REAL down you can't work your way back up. on top of that they

    take in a lot of immigrants.

    From what I can tell, Al isn't mad at his own country because he
    enjoys being blind to things that the "non-right" does.

    "There is no such thing as fake news, unless that news is
    something bad about Trudeau or the US Democrats."
    "There is no such thing as vote fraud, and never has been, unless
    it involves Bad Orange Man and the Russians."
    "All political extremists are bad, but only 'the right' has
    extremists. Leftists riots are always the fault of 'the right'
    and, besides, 'the left' never riots and leftist groups don't
    exist.' "Groups only exist if they have a well defined leadership structure, and only if I have heard of them."

    For some reason, reading some of the things he says reminds me of
    the commandments in "Animal Farm" that keep changing and become contradictory.

    He's pretty predictable.

    Spot on.

    He's a perfect example of what excessive Koolaid Slurping can do to a
    brain. I'm afraid his damage is irreversible.

    Laughable and pitiful at the same time.


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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dr. What on Sunday, December 20, 2020 14:00:28
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dr. What to Al on Sun Dec 20 2020 11:22 am

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without
    justification.

    False Leftie Narrative. The facts don't show anything of the kind.

    This fact is pretty clear.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dr. What on Sunday, December 20, 2020 14:01:57
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dr. What to Al on Sun Dec 20 2020 11:23 am

    I have no pawns to stir into anything. I have no political agenda.

    That has to be the most disingenuous thing I have ever heard.

    OK, what pawns or political agenda am I stirring?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Age isn't important, unless your a cheese

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Sunday, December 20, 2020 14:13:20
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sun Dec 20 2020 10:11 am

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without
    justification. If we can solve that problem these protests and riots
    will stop.

    Thing is, the protests are not about racism at all.

    Right. It's about bad police behaviour, whether that is racism or just a bad attitude I don't know.

    They use racism as an excuse but they are clearly aimed at breaking havoc against the federal government.

    The BLM movement is not anarchy, is not aimed at breaking havok against the federal government.

    These protests have in many cases become riots and that is not good.

    There is a root cause that I think, needs to be addressed if we want these protests and riots to stop. That's where the politics come in and it's not any help in getting to a solution.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... This sentence contradicts itself -- no actually it doesn't.

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 14:22:50
    Re: Leftist rioters and fraud
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sun Dec 20 2020 11:48 am

    No, I look at them as BEING a problem and the result of one.

    Them?

    Problems are everywhere. If there are layers of different problems we will need a solution for each of those problems.

    The thing is that riots didn't have to be the result. Louisville had "peaceful protest" riots and looting, while other cities in the area had actual peaceful protests. Areas that are more "tollerant" had trouble. Areas that are not did not.

    In this case there are many things below the surface that can boil up and the next thing you know you have a riot. It is a complex problem and the solutions may not be easy.

    I believe the actual peaceful protesters have a right to protest. Unlike with your PM, we've not had as much of a gag put on our free speach here. I do not believe the rioters and looters had any right to do what they did.

    Canada is similar to, but not the same as the USA. Write some kind of hate speech in Canada and you can be in a world of hurt very quickly. This is nothing new and not related to what we are talking about.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It is the privilege of fools to laugh at persons of sense

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 14:29:12
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Sun Dec 20 2020 11:44 am

    That is, that is the supposed root cause. The actual root cause is that people on the not right and not center portion of the political spectrum saw an opportunity to start trouble... but that cannot really be true because the left never does stuff like that. They are always peaceful.

    Anyone can start trouble or be corrupt. It doesn't matter how far right or left you go, people generally can be or do corrupt things.

    In my own case I am likely close to the center although my leanings are conservative, I am progressive.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... ALIMONY: The cost of leaving.

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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Arelor on Sunday, December 20, 2020 15:22:31
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to Al on Sun Dec 20 2020 10:11 am

    Thing is, the protests are not about racism at all. They use racism as an excuse but they are clearly aimed at breaking havoc against the federal government.

    Of course it's about racism. It's always about racism. What world do you live in? Do you know how long this shit's been going on? The problem is the blacks think they can "fix" the whites. The white's "owe" them. "Retribution" if you will. They want the whites to wake up one day and love all black people. They want us to confess our sins to them and give them everything they deserve. The land that was promised, the money, the jobs. All of it. The tide will turn and it will be the white upper and middle class that will suffer. White people don't stick together the way blacks do. We fight each other. I don't see how you can say it's not about racism. It is and will always be about racism. It's never going to go away. Not in my life time anyway.

    |05 HusTler

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  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 17:38:36
    On 12/20/2020 11:50 am Dumas Walker said...
    "There is no such thing as fake news, unless that news is something bad about Trudeau or the US Democrats." "There is no such thing as vote fraud, and never has been, unless it involves Bad Orange Man and the Russians." "All political extremists are bad, but only 'the right' has extremists. Leftists riots are always the fault of 'the right' and, besides, 'the left' never riots and leftist groups don't exist.' "Groups only exist if they have a well defined leadership structure, and only if I have heard of them."

    Let another "leftist" address those topics.

    Fake news is Trump's pet term for anything unflattering to him, which he hijacked from people trying to find a politically correct term for propaganda and lying coming from Trump.

    Vote fraud is real and statistically insignificant. Trump didn't win because the Russians hacked anything, although their misinformation campaign probably helped. Americans voted for him of their own free will. Similarly, Biden didn't win because of some massive vote fraud conspiracy. He won because Trump is historically unpopular and we saw record turnout. It takes a ridiculous amount of self-delusion to look at the sheer volume of hatred aimed towards him and refuse to accept he could have lost an election.

    Extremists exist on both sides, and are often so far extreme that "left" or "right" fails to encapsulate them at that point. I know plenty of progressives I've formerly called friends I no longer speak to because they've gone off the deep end. If you think AOC or the rest of "the squad" are extremists, you haven't seen squat.

    "Leftist" riot seems to insinuate anything ostensibly related to BLM. The majority of that was protests, which don't get reported on because they're uninteresting. The riots were the result of either: people on the left with years of frustration boiling over (not right but understandable) people on the right who were there to stir up racial tensions (the boogaloo crowd) and what I believe most of them fall into, people who are just pieces of shit and took advantage of the situation to cause chaos and destruction because they wanted to steal shit and stick it to the man (whoever he was that day.)



    Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of existential threat to the nation.

    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.19.1)
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  • From Philthy74@VERT/BUNKERBB to HusTler on Sunday, December 20, 2020 20:03:29
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: HusTler to Arelor on Sun Dec 20 2020 15:22:31

    Of course it's about racism. It's always about racism. What world do you live in? Do you know how long this shit's been going on? The problem is the blacks think they can "fix" the whites. The white's "owe" them. "Retribution" if you will. They want the whites to wake up one day and love all black people. They want us to confess our sins to them and give them everything they deserve. The land that was promised, the money, the jobs. All of it. The tide will turn and it will be the white upper and middle class that will suffer. White people don't stick together the way blacks do. We fight each other. I don't see how you can say it's not about racism. It is and will always be about racism. It's never going to go away. Not in my life time anyway.

    Great point. We have the same narrative happening in Canada with the aboriginal population.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 20, 2020 20:02:45
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 20 2020 10:50 am

    left' never riots and leftist groups don't exist.'
    "Groups only exist if they have a well defined leadership structure, and only if I have heard of them."

    For some reason, reading some of the things he says reminds me of the commandments in "Animal Farm" that keep changing and become contradictory.

    He's pretty predictable.


    yes, as they say... "ignorance is bliss"
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Monday, December 21, 2020 16:28:00
    Standard Leftie debate tactic: Redefine things to match the Leftie's argument.

    Yes it is. Leaving stuff out when they quote a message back to you, as if
    you never explained that part, is another one.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Monday, December 21, 2020 16:49:00
    No, I look at them as BEING a problem and the result of one.

    Them?

    Yes, the riots over the Summer. It was right above the line you quoted,
    and I think I know that you can read.

    The thing is that riots didn't have to be the result. Louisville had "peaceful protest" riots and looting, while other cities in the area had actual peaceful protests. Areas that are more "tollerant" had trouble. Areas that are not did not.

    In this case there are many things below the surface that can boil up and the xt thing you know you have a riot. It is a complex problem and the solutions m
    not be easy.

    Looks pretty easy to me.

    -- If you live in an area where people know the law will crack down on them
    for looting and destroying property, you have very few problems with looting and property destruction. You instead have peaceful protests where
    community leaders are more likely to show up and people actually have their voices heard.

    -- If you live in an area with a history of left-leaning politics, and being soft on people who excercise their "freedom of expression" by looting and destruction, you are going to have more looting and destruction. No one
    who can actually listen and help is going to show up because they don't
    want to be beat up. They might be dumb enough to call it a "peaceful
    protest," but they're smart enough not to be there as long as it is
    dangerous.

    In the latter case, the same people who are either out tearing the
    city down, or that support the activity, will be on TV some time in the future complaining about how all the businesses have moved out to the suburbs (or
    out of town) and downtown is crumbling. Well, DUH!


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Monday, December 21, 2020 10:22:00
    That is, that is the supposed root cause. The actual root cause is that people on the not right and not center portion of the political spectrum saw an opportunity to start trouble... but that cannot really be true because the left never does stuff like that. They are always peaceful.

    Anyone can start trouble or be corrupt. It doesn't matter how far right or left
    you go, people generally can be or do corrupt things.

    In the context of the current discussion, most of us (outside of your part
    of BC) seem to be pretty straight on which side took a bad situation as an opportunity to start trouble.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Make BC Great Again! Trump for Premier!!!!

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DEEPTHAW on Monday, December 21, 2020 16:55:00
    Fake news is Trump's pet term for anything unflattering to him, which he hijack
    d from people trying to find a politically correct term for propaganda and lyin
    coming from Trump.

    The term "fake news" existed long before Trump even started running for President. When I first heard it, his only political experience was as a character on The Simpsons. "Russian collusion" and "peaceful protests" are both much, much newer phrases than "fake news."

    Extremists exist on both sides, and are often so far extreme that "left" or "ri
    ht" fails to encapsulate them at that point. I know plenty of progressives I've
    formerly called friends I no longer speak to because they've gone off the deep >nd.

    You need to find a way to explain that to Al, but be sure to use very small words and be prepared for lots of contradiction.

    "Leftist" riot seems to insinuate anything ostensibly related to BLM. The major
    ty of that was protests, which don't get reported on because they're uninterest
    ng.

    The actual peaceful protests were reported on in this area, too. I live between two big towns. One town does not have a history of putting up with stupidity. There, they had actual peaceful protesting, very little (if any) rioting, and likely got some good discussion out of the issues. Community leaders weren't afraid to participate.

    The other town has a different history. There, they had "peaceful protest" riots that were destructive on Day 1. No bad righties showing up to stir them into it. As soon as it got nice and dark, they started tearing everything up.

    The riots were the result of either: people on the left with years of frustr >ation boiling over (not right but understandable) people on the right who were >here to stir up racial tensions (the boogaloo crowd) and what I believe most of
    them fall into, people who are just pieces of shit and took advantage of the si
    uation to cause chaos and destruction because they wanted to steal shit and sti
    k it to the man (whoever he was that day.)

    In the local case, third option. Maybe some first option folks who think
    the Police don't have a right to defend themselves when fired on.

    ifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups aren't. What they aren't is well
    organized or some kind of existential threat to the nation.

    Tell that to people who have lost property, or property value, or their
    loved ones, to these nonthreatening folks.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Monday, December 21, 2020 16:30:00
    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without
    justification. If we can solve that problem these protests and riots will st

    Thing is, the protests are not about racism at all. They use racism as an excuse but they are clearly aimed at breaking havoc against the federal government.

    Exactly.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Monday, December 21, 2020 16:59:00
    The problem of course is black people being killed by police without
    justification.

    False Leftie Narrative. The facts don't show anything of the kind.

    This fact is pretty clear.

    You cut it out of the last message I wrote you on this topic but here it is again. The violent, leftist riots in this part of the country were after
    the cops RETURNED FIRE in two different instances. In the first one, the shooters girlfriend was killed and, in the second one, after the riots had already started, the gunman was killed.

    To a leftist, a cop returing fire is probably not justified, but to most of
    the rest of us it is. I can remember when shooting at cops used to be
    called "suicide by cop," as in the person wanted to die and just couldn't
    kill themselves.

    Now it is a reason to burn the inner city down.

    Nationally, the other instances, without fail, seemed to involve other
    things I was told never to do to/with a cop unless I wanted to go to jail
    or wanted an assisted suicide. I somehow doubt these latest instances were used as teaching moments for anything of the sort.


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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Monday, December 21, 2020 19:45:38
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Mon Dec 21 2020 04:59 pm

    The problem of course is black people being killed by police
    without justification.

    This is what I am talking about. Black people being killed without justification.

    You cut it out of the last message I wrote you on this topic but here it is again. The violent, leftist riots in this part of the country were after the cops RETURNED FIRE in two different instances. In the first one, the shooters girlfriend was killed and, in the second one, after the riots had already started, the gunman was killed.

    This is an entirely different thing where someone fired on police when he thought they were intruders in his home when it was in fact police serving a no knock warrant. These cops were at the wrong address. This is another instance of people being killed without any kind of justification at all.

    To a leftist, a cop returing fire is probably not justified, but to most of the rest of us it is. I can remember when shooting at cops used to be called "suicide by cop," as in the person wanted to die and just couldn't kill themselves.

    I can't speak for leftists but there can be times when a cop has to kill or injure someone who is a threat to themselves or others. Suicide by cop is another totally different thing not related to what I was talking about. It is a real thing too, just not what I was saying.

    Now it is a reason to burn the inner city down.

    I don't know why the protests turned into riots. An angry mob is a possibility.

    Nationally, the other instances, without fail, seemed to involve other things I was told never to do to/with a cop unless I wanted to go to jail or wanted an assisted suicide. I somehow doubt these latest instances were used as teaching moments for anything of the sort.

    If you do certain things or behave in a certain way your chances of being arrested or killed by police increase with those activities. I don't recommend that.

    What I am talking about is the bad behaviour of police that can end with injury or death of people who did not deserve that.

    No knock warrants and suicide by cop are all debatable subjects, but that is not what I am talking about.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... My modem isn't slow- it's "baudily challenged!"

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Dumas Walker on Monday, December 21, 2020 19:56:21
    Re: Leftist rioters and fraud
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Mon Dec 21 2020 04:49 pm

    In this case there are many things below the surface that can boil up
    and the next thing you know you have a riot. It is a complex problem and
    the solutions might not be easy.

    Looks pretty easy to me.

    It seems easy to me too. Stop the unjustified killing of people by police and the protests and riots also stop.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... A seminar on Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to deepthaw on Monday, December 21, 2020 18:13:13
    On 12/20/2020 4:38 PM, deepthaw wrote:

    Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about
    leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa
    don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I
    spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of
    fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call
    themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups
    aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of
    existential threat to the nation.

    And what you are describing is how most terrorist organizations are structured. Not to mention that many localized antifa cells define the current US Govt (including Democrats) as fascist/facism that must be
    opposed with violence.

    --
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    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Al on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 09:55:00
    Al wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Nationally, the other instances, without fail, seemed to involve other things I was told never to do to/with a cop unless I wanted to go to jail or wanted an assisted suicide. I somehow doubt these latest instances were used as teaching moments for anything of the sort.

    If you do certain things or behave in a certain way your chances
    of being arrested or killed by police increase with those
    activities. I don't recommend that.

    Exactly. And in *EVERY* *SINGLE* *CASE* of recent nationally
    sensationalized incidents where a cop killed somebody, the "victim"
    did exactly that. They *ALL* did certain things or behaved in a certain
    way which resulted in the police action.

    What I am talking about is the bad behaviour of police that can
    end with injury or death of people who did not deserve that.

    See above. Perhaps the "victims" had some bad behavior too, which
    actually caused the injury/death. Yup.

    No knock warrants and suicide by cop are all debatable subjects,
    but that is not what I am talking about.

    Nobody really knows *WHAT* you're talking about. Including you.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Al on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 10:33:52
    Re: Leftist rioters and fraud
    By: Al to Dumas Walker on Mon Dec 21 2020 07:56 pm

    Re: Leftist rioters and fraud
    By: Dumas Walker to AL on Mon Dec 21 2020 04:49 pm

    In this case there are many things below the surface that can boil up
    and the next thing you know you have a riot. It is a complex problem and
    the solutions might not be easy.

    Looks pretty easy to me.

    It seems easy to me too. Stop the unjustified killing of people by police an the protests and riots also stop.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... A seminar on Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago


    Riots would stop if the core issue was unjustified killing of people by police.

    My hunch is that if they didn't have unjustified killings, they would take a new excuse and roll with it. That's how politics work.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:54:00
    This is an entirely different thing where someone fired on police when he thoug
    t they were intruders in his home when it was in fact police serving a no knock
    warrant. These cops were at the wrong address. This is another instance of peop
    e being killed without any kind of justification at all.

    That actually was how it was initially reported but turned out not to be
    true.

    (1) they were serving a no-knock, but witnesses in other apartments claimed they did indeed knock and announce.
    (2) they were not at the wrong address -- they went to that address on
    purpose believing that the ex-girlfriend was "holding" evidence (either drugs, guns, and/or money) for the person that the press originally reported they
    were looking for. The "originally reported" person was indeed in custody, but the person they were really looking for was there.

    They had reason to believe she was holding as they had "Bonnie and Clyde"
    style photos from social media that showed her posing with guns and money.

    The new boyfriend shot at, and wounded, one of the cops, causing them to
    return fire. One of the cops shot wildly into other dwellings and has
    since been charged. Although it has been controversial with members of the community, no other policeman had been charged last I heard.

    There is still an active movement to do away with no-knock warrants. In
    most cases, I agree they are not warranted.

    I can't speak for leftists but there can be times when a cop has to kill or inj
    re someone who is a threat to themselves or others. Suicide by cop is another t
    tally different thing not related to what I was talking about. It is a real thi
    g too, just not what I was saying.

    What I am saying is that I was taught shooting at cops = suicide by cop, no matter what. Nowadays, people don't seem to see it like that and, if a cop returns fire, it isn't the original shooters fault.

    If you do certain things or behave in a certain way your chances of being arres
    ed or killed by police increase with those activities. I don't recommend that.

    What I am talking about is the bad behaviour of police that can end with injury
    or death of people who did not deserve that.

    I am aware of no examples of someone being injured or killed by the police
    over this Summer that were not participating in, or were not with someone participating in, some of those "things and behaviors" that can end in "being arrested or killed" that you speak of -- resisting arrest,
    brandishing weapons, shooting at cops, etc.


    * SLMR 2.1a * -

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:54:00
    Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about
    leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa
    don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I
    spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of
    fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call
    themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups
    aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of
    existential threat to the nation.

    And what you are describing is how most terrorist organizations are structured.

    Exactly. That way, when you cut off the head you don't kill the snake... because there is no "head."

    I am not certain if the people who don't understand that "groups" can be (dis)organized that way really don't understand, or don't want anyone else
    to figure it out.

    Not to mention that many localized antifa cells define the
    current US Govt (including Democrats) as fascist/facism that must be
    opposed with violence.

    Which explains why the issues in the Pacific NW continued after the
    election was over.


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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Arelor on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 14:21:46
    Re: Leftist rioters and fraud
    By: Arelor to Al on Tue Dec 22 2020 10:33 am

    Riots would stop if the core issue was unjustified killing of people by police.

    That's what it is in this case.

    My hunch is that if they didn't have unjustified killings, they would take a new excuse and roll with it. That's how politics work.

    The politics will go on and on as they always have regardless of the good or bad behaviour of police.

    While all the politics goes on we might want to, and be able to expect a certain level of justice from police?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... COMMAND: A suggestion made to a computer.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Hobo on Monday, December 28, 2020 01:50:58
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to All on Wed Dec 09 2020 11:53 am

    So.... The Supreme Court won't entertain the idea that the election was stolen in Pennsylvania. This decison makes it next to impossible for Trump to prevail in his bid to overturn the election.

    I've been saying since the election that there was a very simple way for everyone to know with certainty whether there were any shenanigans going on with the election, and that was to watch the Supreme Court.

    Why have I been saying this? Because 6 of the 9 justices are conservative, and 3 of those were appointed by Trump himself. If there was sufficient fraud to overturn this election, the Supreme Court would have dealt with it. We know from precedent (Bush/Gore 2000) that they'll get involved if need be.

    Even though the court leans so heavily to the right, I fully expected them to not touch this.

    Why? Because the only real fraud is the claims of fraud. The only one really trying to steal the election is Trump. I know many of his supporters wish it weren't so... but wishing don't make reality.

    Anyone agree or disagree?

    -Hobo

    I think it has more to do with everyone involved not wanting to be anywhere near this. It's about keeping the peace over political allegiances.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Gamgee on Monday, December 28, 2020 01:55:21
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Fri Dec 11 2020 02:35 am

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ummm. Social Justics courses, human resources, the ADL, other Provda outlets that churn out regressive and inflamed articles?

    Hello?

    Gamer?

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Al on Monday, December 28, 2020 01:55:52
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Gamgee on Fri Dec 11 2020 03:08 am

    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Al on Thu Dec 10 2020 09:35 pm

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Haha! Good one!


    Wrong, but funny.

    Wrong, how?

    Someone enjoys being coy.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Arelor on Monday, December 28, 2020 02:06:12
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Arelor to deepthaw on Wed Dec 16 2020 01:20 pm

    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: deepthaw to Dumas Walker on Tue Dec 15 2020 04:33 pm

    The antifa creed of sorts I saw them espousing at the earliest was a basic belief that fascism is real, it's an existential threat, and it can happen here - therefor freedom of speech and nonviolence can be disposed of if the purpose is keeping fasc from taking hold because the risks are too great.

    Aka:

    We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and we are justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise of fascism.

    There is no contradiction in that.

    You can't make someone driven by the convictions of their own richeousness see that giving into their base urges is wrong. They are drunk on the power of their thoughts.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Tracker1 on Monday, December 28, 2020 02:15:37
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Tracker1 to deepthaw on Mon Dec 21 2020 06:13 pm

    On 12/20/2020 4:38 PM, deepthaw wrote:

    Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about
    leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa
    don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I
    spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of
    fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call
    themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups
    aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of
    existential threat to the nation.

    And what you are describing is how most terrorist organizations are structured. Not to mention that many localized antifa cells define the current US Govt (including Democrats) as fascist/facism that must be
    opposed with violence.

    I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Vlk-451 on Sunday, December 27, 2020 20:04:45
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 01:55 am

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Wrong, but funny.

    Wrong, how?

    Someone enjoys being coy.

    Just being real. Someone or group may be protesting or rioting, but it is not the left.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vlk-451 on Sunday, December 27, 2020 22:42:20
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Vlk-451 to Tracker1 on Mon Dec 28 2020 02:15 am


    I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

    they hide behind that. just like anonymous and blm does.

    there are people calling the shots and dumb people that are 'activists' that
    do the dirty work.
    ---
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vlk-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 07:30:00
    Vlk-451 wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ummm. Social Justics courses, human resources, the ADL, other
    Provda outlets that churn out regressive and inflamed articles?

    Hello?

    Gamer?

    Hello? Gamer? Learn how to read/post, wouldja? The text above that
    you quoted was a conversation between "Al" and "Arelor", and I wrote
    none of that. Not sure why you replied to me. Please try harder.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/THEWASTE to Gamgee on Monday, December 28, 2020 08:14:55
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Vlk-451 on Mon Dec 28 2020 07:30 am

    Vlk-451 wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ummm. Social Justics courses, human resources, the ADL, other
    Provda outlets that churn out regressive and inflamed articles?

    Hello?

    Gamer?

    Hello? Gamer? Learn how to read/post, wouldja? The text above that
    you quoted was a conversation between "Al" and "Arelor", and I wrote
    none of that. Not sure why you replied to me. Please try harder.

    I was intending to reply to Al and Arelor, I used one of your posts to quote them, forgot to change the names away from you to one of them, simple and honest mistake from posting too quickly.

    I'm sure you've made that mistake before at least once in your life, so in that instance I would hope you understand.

    Gamer? My mom is trying to use the modem, I think the connection is br#@$2in% #p. H&6lo?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Al on Monday, December 28, 2020 16:01:06
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Vlk-451 on Sun Dec 27 2020 08:04 pm

    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 01:55 am

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Wrong, but funny.

    Wrong, how?

    Someone enjoys being coy.

    Just being real. Someone or group may be protesting or rioting, but it is not the left.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    That's seemingly an argument of semantics to most people.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to MRO on Monday, December 28, 2020 16:02:40
    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: MRO to Vlk-451 on Sun Dec 27 2020 10:42 pm

    Re: Re: Leftist rioters
    By: Vlk-451 to Tracker1 on Mon Dec 28 2020 02:15 am


    I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

    they hide behind that. just like anonymous and blm does.

    there are people calling the shots and dumb people that are 'activists' that do the dirty work.

    That makes it sound more organized then I really think it is. I seriously think that it's easier to think of it as silos that share an ideology but act individually. So in that aspect much more like terrorists then the traditional idea of a gang, but many gangs work in cells.

    Everything is on a need to know basis and it's all about who you know.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Hobo@VERT/MYSTIDOG to Vlk-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 19:49:42
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Hobo on Mon Dec 28 2020 01:50:58

    I think it has more to do with everyone involved not wanting to be anywhere near this. It's about keeping the peace over political allegiances.

    You think it's that simple? There is no "Keeping The Peace" when a 3 year old narcisist tyrant goes on a rampage. Shit's gonna get flung about. The harder you try to "keep the peace" the worse it gets.

    -Hobo


    bbs.mystic.dog Building World Peace thru Global War bbs.mystic.dog .

    ---
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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Vlk-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 15:36:41
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 04:01 pm

    Just being real. Someone or group may be protesting or rioting, but it
    is not the left.

    That's seemingly an argument of semantics to most people.

    It's not semantic at all. There is a problem behind the protests and riots that follow, but that is not the left.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... A camel is a horse planned by committee.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to VLK-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 14:23:00
    We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and
    we are justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise of fascism.

    There is no contradiction in that.

    You can't make someone driven by the convictions of their own richeousness see
    hat giving into their base urges is wrong. They are drunk on the power of thei
    thoughts.

    This. :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Stamp Collection?? Ha-Ha!" - Nelson

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Hobo on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 01:12:58
    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Hobo to Vlk-451 on Mon Dec 28 2020 07:49 pm

    Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Hobo on Mon Dec 28 2020 01:50:58

    I think it has more to do with everyone involved not wanting to be anywhere near this. It's about keeping the peace over political allegiances.

    You think it's that simple? There is no "Keeping The Peace" when a 3 year old narcisist tyrant goes on a rampage. Shit's gonna get flung about. The harder you try to "keep the peace" the worse it gets.

    -Hobo


    bbs.mystic.dog Building World Peace thru Global War bbs.mystic.dog .

    As a former fed, yeah. That's all I saw. People covering their asses.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Al on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 01:19:36
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Al to Vlk-451 on Mon Dec 28 2020 03:36 pm

    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 04:01 pm

    Just being real. Someone or group may be protesting or rioting, but it
    is not the left.

    That's seemingly an argument of semantics to most people.

    It's not semantic at all. There is a problem behind the protests and riots that follow, but that is not the left.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    Because you're the arbiter of what is and isn't "The Left"?

    Are we talking about the authoritarian left or the liberal left? Surely the people involved in the riots and protests over these non-descript problems surely share some leftist ideology.

    This is the exact shit enlightened leftists like yourself pulled with that entire GamerGate debackle bck in 2015. Shift the narrative, redefine the terms, dissociate with all radical elements while painting your political rivals as nothing but extremeists.

    It's not healthy to the ability for either side to communicate effectively and by trying to win some sort of ideological argument you aren't actally reaching me with your points.

    To someone like me, it is semantics, because while I agree with your general notion, your tone and way of leading the argument reaks of "No it's actually this way because I'm better then you and my farts smell awesome. Wana sniff?"

    A lot of people on the right feel that way trying to talk to people on the left, I think it's one of the major sources on contention between the two groups.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Vlk-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 18:54:02
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Vlk-451 to Al on Tue Dec 29 2020 01:19 am

    It's not semantic at all. There is a problem behind the protests and
    riots that follow, but that is not the left.

    Because you're the arbiter of what is and isn't "The Left"?

    I am not the arbiter of anything at all. I am just saying that this is not a left or right issue and neither is the solution whatever that might happen to be.


    Are we talking about the authoritarian left or the liberal left? Surely the people involved in the riots and protests over these non-descript problems surely share some leftist ideology.

    This is not a non descript problem. It would be easier to understand and solve without the <left this> or <right that> comments.

    To someone like me, it is semantics, because while I agree with your general notion, your tone and way of leading the argument reaks of "No it's actually this way because I'm better then you and my farts smell awesome. Wana sniff?"

    Just so you know my farts are not usually all that good, and sometimes downright nasty. I wouldn't suggest anyone go there.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Black holes are where God divided by zero.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vlk-451 on Monday, December 28, 2020 19:21:00
    Vlk-451 wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ummm. Social Justics courses, human resources, the ADL, other
    Provda outlets that churn out regressive and inflamed articles?

    Hello?

    Gamer?

    Hello? Gamer? Learn how to read/post, wouldja? The text above that
    you quoted was a conversation between "Al" and "Arelor", and I wrote
    none of that. Not sure why you replied to me. Please try harder.

    I was intending to reply to Al and Arelor, I used one of your
    posts to quote them, forgot to change the names away from you to
    one of them, simple and honest mistake from posting too quickly.

    Why would you use my post and then need to remember to change the
    names? You replied to what "Al" posted, so just reply to his message
    and there's no need to change names. Simple, huh?

    I'm sure you've made that mistake before at least once in your
    life, so in that instance I would hope you understand.

    Actually, no, I have never made that mistake, so there is no "that
    instance". Good try, though. Well, mediocre try, anyway.


    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Gamgee on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 03:36:25
    Re: Re: Supreme Court Rejects Pennsylvania Lawsuit
    By: Gamgee to Vlk-451 on Mon Dec 28 2020 07:21 pm

    Vlk-451 wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Al wrote to Arelor <=-

    If you are talking about left organizations sponsoring groups that riot and vandalize in order to bring unstability against society and the federal government, then I agree it sucks and that burning the streets is highly divisive behaviour.

    The left does not sponsor groups or rioting.

    Ummm. Social Justics courses, human resources, the ADL, other
    Provda outlets that churn out regressive and inflamed articles?

    Hello?

    Gamer?

    Hello? Gamer? Learn how to read/post, wouldja? The text above that
    you quoted was a conversation between "Al" and "Arelor", and I wrote
    none of that. Not sure why you replied to me. Please try harder.

    I was intending to reply to Al and Arelor, I used one of your
    posts to quote them, forgot to change the names away from you to
    one of them, simple and honest mistake from posting too quickly.

    Why would you use my post and then need to remember to change the
    names? You replied to what "Al" posted, so just reply to his message
    and there's no need to change names. Simple, huh?

    I'm sure you've made that mistake before at least once in your
    life, so in that instance I would hope you understand.

    Actually, no, I have never made that mistake, so there is no "that instance". Good try, though. Well, mediocre try, anyway.


    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

    Well, I was thinking about kicking your ass for talking all that shit.

    It's like I said, I plan on squatting / going full hobo. By that time I might have over my life time been able to mooch enough to get myself a trailer and move out to that lawless garbage city in the desert of california with no laws. I'll get satalite internet and solar panels/alternative energy sources.

    Shit, by 2050, I'm sure energy technology will advance enough for me to squeeze by on trash and duck tape.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to AL on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 13:39:00
    Maybe not "the (whole) left," but the views of these rioters are not from
    "the right" and not from "the center," which leaves... ???

    Not everything in life is a left/right or Democrat/Republican policy issue.

    Correct, but the summer riots were not one of them.

    I don't know if there are any, or needs to be any federal or state guidelines ound the use of force by police. Police should not use lethal force, or any ki
    of force if it's not needed.

    Here is where it comes down to left/right. Folks who are "right-of-left" generally agree that police returning fire on someone firing on them, or
    using force against someone resisting arrest or doing something else that
    could be dangerous to others, is the police using necessary force.

    People on the left do not all agree with that. The ones that don't get out
    and either have peaceful protests (which could draw some sympathetic folks
    that are "right-of-left") or they have "peaceful protest" riots that no one
    in their right (or center) mind would dare participate in.

    Most of this summer's riots were very much political and very much "left of center."

    Here is some interesting reading:

    The city of Detroit has sued Black Lives Matter demonstrators, claiming that the protesters organized a 'civil conspiracy' and defamed law enforcement and city officials in hopes of inciting violence.

    The city's countersuit claims that DWB 'illegally, maliciously, and
    wrongfully conspired with one another with the intent to and for the illegal purpose of disturbing the peace, engaging in disorderly conduct, inciting riots, destroying public property, resisting or obstructing officers in
    charge of duty, and committing acts of violence against Counter-Plaintiffs
    and DPD officers.'

    They added: 'Counter-Defendants have been captured on video hurling dangerous projectiles at police officers, blocking busy streets and school buses, encouraging violent behavior, screaming loudly in the faces of DPD officers, refusing to follow clear and lawful DPD directives and destroying and defacing public property.'

    Because of this, the countersuit declares that the protests should not be protected under the First Amendment.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9082733/ Detroit-sues-Black-Lives-Matter-creating-civil-conspiracy.html

    Detroit Suing Black Lives Matter Activists for "Civil Conspiracy"

    The City of Detroit has filed a lawsuit against Black Lives Matter activists, alleging a "civil conspiracy" and claiming the protests in the city "have repeatedly turned violent, endangering the lives of police and the public."

    The city cites four protests that occurred in the city this year, and alleges that injuries to police officers included "cracked vertebrae, lacerations,
    and concussions."

    https://www.policemag.com/587691/ detroit-suing-black-lives-matter-activists-for-civil-conspiracy

    Detroit, police strike back against Black Lives Matter rioters in first-of-its-kind lawsuit

    Detroit police officers are fighting back against Black Lives Matter
    protesters in court, saying demonstrators are not being held accountable for their actions in the streets.

    In a first-of-its-kind lawsuit, the Detroit Police Department and the city itself have sued Detroit Will Breathe, an umbrella organization of racial justice groups.

    The lawsuit says Detroit Will Breathe engaged in a civil conspiracy to incite riots, destroy property and commit acts of violence against police officers during the summer protests ignited by the death of George Floyd while in Minneapolis police custody.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/22/ detroit-police-sue-detroit-will-breathe-bid-hold-b/

    If you search the internet, you can also find at least one interview with Detroit Police Chief James Craig. Chief Craig agrees with the lawsuit, and Chief Craig is not white.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Kills millions of germs on contract"

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