Re: NetRunner source
By: echicken to MRO on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:37:13


echicken> I have a hard time imagining him being collaborative enough
echicken> for that to work out. Likely butted heads with contributors
echicken> and got touchy about criticism.

ding! ding! ding! give that man a cigar...


)\/(ark

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Rampage wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: Gamgee to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 07:47:00

Due to some recent bad experiences with code theft, James has
stopped making the source for Mystic/NetRunner available, but the
binaries are simple and work. ---

Gamgee> Not sure how "recent" that may have been, but both have
Gamgee> been closed-source for as long as I can remember...

i had a copy of the repo for the v1.11 series when it was open
source... he killed the repo for several reasons... 1) bug
reports on things he had already fixed but hadn't pushed to the
repo for others to pull... 2) code submissions he didn't like for
some reason... 3) general trolling on code stuffs... nothing at
all was said about "code theft" at the time... it was more stress
than anything else that lead to the repo being killed... it just
fit his workflow better to not be open source like that... RL
stress as well as the bug reports just stacked up and he wasn't a
happy grasshopper... i recognized certain code libraries being
used (MKSMG) with no attribution at that time... not that it was
any big deal... but nothing about code theft that i recall...

Ahhhh, OK thanks for that info. Seems like he's kind of a
tempermental and strange bird...



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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to echicken on Wed Aug 19 2020 00:54:29

what it all boils down to is from day one he did not want to be open sourced and he wanted to find a
reason to yank it.

And by then it's too late; the mirroring and forking that he wanted to avoid is already done.

i'm not sure if someone really stuck their name on mystic bbs.

If they did, it's a natural consequence of going open source and not something to be surprised by.

Were I in his shoes, I would *want* other people to rename and take credit for their forks and variants. As long as they're giving as much credit to him as the original license demands, that's fine.

It's okay if people fork the project and make a mess or never do anything with it. GitHub etc. are rife with good intentions and fizzled efforts. Sometimes there are useful changes that someone else can work from.

The main thing is that it be made clear who wrote what, so that the original author doesn't receive a bunch of confusing requests to support someone else's junk.

we talked about this at length on zeronet and he got really pissed. he really does not like open
source, he does not like collaboration. that's his right, though. the truth is he put mystic source

Yep. Sucks that he closed it up, but it's his project and his choice. I'm surprised that he caved to pressure to open it up in the first place, given his low tolerance for the consequences. I suppose it was a learning experience.

I've had kind of the opposite curve, being quite embarrassed of my shitty code early on and defensive because I'd worked hard on it. Took me some time to learn to deal with criticism and disagreements on how things should be done, etc. If you can get past all of that, there's a lot of room for growth and improvement.

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Re: NetRunner source
By: Underminer to echicken on Wed Aug 19 2020 03:48:40

I don't know what the whole fsxNet thing was about, and if it was a case of butting heads with
Paul(Avon)....geesh, my interactions with Paul have always left me thinking very favourably about
him and his ease of interaction.

I don't think it was anything that Paul did; at most, it was what he didn't do. Some other people were being critical and argumentative and, I dunno, nobody told them to stop? Not sure.

That said though, you and I both know that devs can be a little less socially dexterous than might
be ideal; that tends to get elevated if you're working with something you consider your life's work.

Indeed. "Hissy fit" was maybe an uncharitable choice of words. It just seemed like he bailed on the entire network quite easily, when he could've just bowed out of the thread or whatever. Whatever, nobody needs for their hobby to piss them off, so that's his right.

---
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I don't think it was anything that Paul did; at most, it was what he didn't do
Some other people were being critical and argumentative and, I dunno, nobody t
d them to stop? Not sure.

I believe they were pointing out issues with the software, specifically the
ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did not like that FSXnet was a network with more than one hub... I got the impression that the ftn issues caused problems when there were multiple hubs on a network (like FSX or
fido have), so maybe that was why.

The othernet he moved to only has one central hub.


* SLMR 2.1a * Four snack groups: frozen, crunchies, cakes and sweets.

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Re: NetRunner source
By: Dumas Walker to ECHICKEN on Wed Aug 19 2020 03:40 pm

* SLMR 2.1a * Four snack groups: frozen, crunchies, cakes and sweets.

Do you file salties under crunchies?

[fLEE.tHE.pLANET.bBS][916.pRI.vATE]

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Re: NetRunner source
By: Dumas Walker to ECHICKEN on Wed Aug 19 2020 15:40:00

I believe they were pointing out issues with the software, specifically the
ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did not like that FSXnet was a

Yes, and to be fair, some were being absolute dicks about it. One guy in particular was having a massive overreaction to the problem. So things just heated up on both sides.

ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did not like that FSXnet was a network with more than one hub... I got the impression that the ftn issues

That would be a pretty wacky thing to dislike about an FTN, but okay. :)

The othernet he moved to only has one central hub.

Which could disappear at any time if its operator decides to go incommunicado, which has happened before. (I say that with due respect to the guy, he's a friend of mine, but facts is facts.) Kind of a situation where multiple hubs operated by different people would be good.

---
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Dumas Walker wrote to ECHICKEN <=-

I don't think it was anything that Paul did; at most, it was what he didn't

do

Some other people were being critical and argumentative and, I dunno, nobody

t

d them to stop? Not sure.

I believe they were pointing out issues with the software,
specifically the ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did
not like that FSXnet was a network with more than one hub... I
got the impression that the ftn issues caused problems when there
were multiple hubs on a network (like FSX or fido have), so maybe
that was why.

That's how I remember the issue, too. I think the FTN issues were
because there were so many different versions (of Mystic) in use,
with so many different bugs, that there were communication and
dupe issues between the hubs. Also something about messages being
truncated after 256 characters as I recall.

The bottom line was that the software wasn't performing well, and
he got tired of hearing the complaints, I guess.



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Re: NetRunner source
By: echicken to MRO on Wed Aug 19 2020 11:48 am

I've had kind of the opposite curve, being quite embarrassed of my shitty code early on and defensive because I'd worked hard on it. Took me some time to learn to deal with criticism and disagreements on how things should be done, etc. If you can get past all of that, there's a lot of room for growth and improvement.

i have very little programming experience. i only did it when i was out of work because that's only when i had the time to learn it and practice and impliment it.

but i had to learn how to use baja and some synchronet javascript[once there were examples for me to learn from], and i did have someone take my stuff and then put their name on it. and i admit it did piss me off a bit. but it was timewarrior and everything he did pissed me off.

i dont see why g00r00 would be mad about these 2 guys taking his bbs and stamping a new name on it and making it into a total shit show in both cases.
he just wanted a reason to pull it, like i said.
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On 8/19/2020 8:48 AM, echicken wrote:

I've had kind of the opposite curve, being quite embarrassed of my shitty code early on and defensive because I'd worked hard on it. Took me some time to learn to deal with criticism and disagreements on how things should be done, etc. If you can get past all of that, there's a lot of room for growth and improvement.

Agreed... for the most part, I try to think of anything I write as
something that's destined to be replaced (not always for better though)
and that in the end, it will all work out. The longest running system I
ever made was originally throw-away code meant for testing other things, instead it winds up at the core of a fortune 100 company public facing
effort for well over a decade, and the "enterprise" replacement took
over 3 years (for a 6-month project) and didn't work much better.

--
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* SLMR 2.1a * Four snack groups: frozen, crunchies, cakes and sweets.

Do you file salties under crunchies?

Hmmmm, maybe there are five food groups? :) A lot of crunchies are salty.
I myself would classify cakes as sweets, but maybe whoever originally
wrote that one was thinking sweets = hard candies and candy bars.


* SLMR 2.1a *  Look in the mirror, my friend.... 

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I believe they were pointing out issues with the software, specifically the
ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did not like that FSXnet was a

Yes, and to be fair, some were being absolute dicks about it. One guy in partic
lar was having a massive overreaction to the problem. So things just heated up >n both sides.

Agreed. He later had a massive overreation to something I said on another subject. I don't see him around much any more.

ftn bits that were causing issues. He also did not like that FSXnet was a >DW> network with more than one hub... I got the impression that the ftn issues

That would be a pretty wacky thing to dislike about an FTN, but okay. :)

I agree. At least three of the hubs were running mystic but at least one
was not. That could have been the issue... the mystic bug showed up because the other hub was not mystic? I did not really understand it, either.


* SLMR 2.1a * On the other hand, you have different fingers.

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That's how I remember the issue, too. I think the FTN issues were
because there were so many different versions (of Mystic) in use,
with so many different bugs, that there were communication and
dupe issues between the hubs. Also something about messages being
truncated after 256 characters as I recall.

I forgot that bit... I think it was also changing messages from other
systems that flowed through the mystic system and causing things to be truncated and/or MSG IDs to be altered.

The bottom line was that the software wasn't performing well, and
he got tired of hearing the complaints, I guess.

Yes.


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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to echicken on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:18 pm

but i had to learn how to use baja and some synchronet javascript[once there were examples for me to learn from], and i did have someone take my stuff and then put their name on it. and i admit it did piss me off a bit. but it was timewarrior and everything he did pissed me off.

Ha! I hear ya...

digital man

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Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to MRO on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:38 am

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to echicken on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:18 pm

but i had to learn how to use baja and some synchronet javascript[once
there were examples for me to learn from], and i did have someone take
my stuff and then put their name on it. and i admit it did piss me
off a bit. but it was timewarrior and everything he did pissed me
off.

Ha! I hear ya...

i'm glad tw moved on from bbsing. he hasnt had a job his entire life and he has way too much time and crazy energy. not sure what he will do when his dad dies and there's nobody to support him.
---
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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:50 am

Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to MRO on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:38 am

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to echicken on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:18 pm

but i had to learn how to use baja and some synchronet
javascript[once there were examples for me to learn from], and i did
have someone take my stuff and then put their name on it. and i
admit it did piss me off a bit. but it was timewarrior and
everything he did pissed me off.

Ha! I hear ya...

i'm glad tw moved on from bbsing. he hasnt had a job his entire life and he has way too much time and crazy energy. not sure what he will do when his dad dies and there's nobody to support him.

agh i just watched a minute of one of his youtube videos and it gave me a headache
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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to all on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:56 am

agh i just watched a minute of one of his youtube videos and it gave me a headache ---

Who is he on YouTube?
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Re: NetRunner source
By: Underminer to MRO on Sat Aug 22 2020 02:27 am

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to all on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:56 am

agh i just watched a minute of one of his youtube videos and it gave
me a headache ---

Who is he on YouTube?

paradigm shift and educational comedy v2.0
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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:50 am

Ha! I hear ya...

i'm glad tw moved on from bbsing. he hasnt had a job his entire life and he has way too much time and crazy energy. not sure what he will do when his dad dies and there's nobody to support him.

This hobby seems to attract *all* kinds, but yeah, I don't miss his SynchroWebSuportNet.org or whatever it was. There was an online video of an XpressitNet "meetup" at one time. Check that out if you can find it. :-)

digital man

Sling Blade quote #19:
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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Underminer on Sat Aug 22 2020 10:31 am

paradigm shift and educational comedy v2.0

Whelp, I couldn't get through a video to get a sense of anything.
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Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Aug 22 2020 02:59 pm

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:50 am

Ha! I hear ya...

i'm glad tw moved on from bbsing. he hasnt had a job his entire life
and he has way too much time and crazy energy. not sure what he will
do when his dad dies and there's nobody to support him.

This hobby seems to attract *all* kinds, but yeah, I don't miss his SynchroWebSuportNet.org or whatever it was. There was an online video of an XpressitNet "meetup" at one time. Check that out if you can find it. :-)

yeah it was a huge dork fest.
right now he has videos that will probably drive a person insane. there's people talking and weird loud music playing at the same time that osciliates.
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Re: NetRunner source
By: Underminer to MRO on Sat Aug 22 2020 04:20 pm

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Underminer on Sat Aug 22 2020 10:31 am

paradigm shift and educational comedy v2.0

Whelp, I couldn't get through a video to get a sense of anything.

you end up feeling like you have to bleach your brain.




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Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Aug 22 2020 06:39 pm

Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Aug 22 2020 02:59 pm

Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:50 am

Ha! I hear ya...

i'm glad tw moved on from bbsing. he hasnt had a job his entire life
and he has way too much time and crazy energy. not sure what he will
do when his dad dies and there's nobody to support him.

This hobby seems to attract *all* kinds, but yeah, I don't miss his SynchroWebSuportNet.org or whatever it was. There was an online video of an XpressitNet "meetup" at one time. Check that out if you can find it. :-)

yeah it was a huge dork fest.

Well "huge" might be an overstatement. :-)

digital man

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Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Aug 22 2020 06:59 pm

yeah it was a huge dork fest.

Well "huge" might be an overstatement. :-)

digital man

well. 3 huge dorks.
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yeah it was a huge dork fest.
right now he has videos that will probably drive a person insane. there's peopl
talking and weird loud music playing at the same time that osciliates.

That sounds a little like CHEEZ BURGER's videos.


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Re: NetRunner source
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 09:18 am

yeah it was a huge dork fest.
right now he has videos that will probably drive a person insane.
there's

peopl

talking and weird loud music playing at the same time that osciliates.

That sounds a little like CHEEZ BURGER's videos.

no it's horrible. and instead of some pretending to be stupid, it's someone on a whole 'nother level of everything.
---
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yeah it was a huge dork fest.
right now he has videos that will probably drive a person insane.
there's

peopl

talking and weird loud music playing at the same time that osciliates.

That sounds a little like CHEEZ BURGER's videos.

no it's horrible. and instead of some pretending to be stupid, it's someone on a whole 'nother level of everything.
---

wheres the link, or what do i search so i can watch for context? i missed the first part of this thread.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: paulie420 to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 06:49 pm

no it's horrible. and instead of some pretending to be stupid, it's someone on a whole 'nother level of everything.
---

wheres the link, or what do i search so i can watch for context? i missed the first part of this thread.

Well, there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s

and there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

digital man

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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to paulie420 on Sun Aug 23 2020 10:36 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

Holy potato-cam, batman.
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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to paulie420 on Sun Aug 23 2020 10:36 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

I had meticulously scrubbed the very existence of TW from my brain over the course of many years.

Now it's all back. all of it. oh god.....

DaiTengu

... A oscillator will oscillate at the wrong frequency ...if it oscillates.

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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: Digital Man to paulie420 on Sun Aug 23 2020 10:36 pm

Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: paulie420 to MRO on Sun Aug 23 2020 06:49 pm

no it's horrible. and instead of some pretending to be stupid,
it's someone on a whole 'nother level of everything.
---

wheres the link, or what do i search so i can watch for context? i
missed the first part of this thread.

Well, there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s

and there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

oh that aint shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8El9KeeN1Ns

i dare anybody to watch this until the end
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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 05:14 pm

oh that aint shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8El9KeeN1Ns

Oh shit! Turns out I'd mostly blocked him out too, but that link uncovered that area of my brain and memories, and it all came flooding back... Thanks for that :P
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Re: Re: NetRunner source
By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Aug 24 2020 05:14 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s

and there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

oh that aint shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8El9KeeN1Ns

Oh, I agree he's gotten worse (and lost some teeth apparently).
That intro audio! The spelling errors... The rude conduct of the interviewer/host... Who would really want to sit and watch some toothless idiot eat pudding (or soup?) for twenty minutes?

i dare anybody to watch this until the end

I did (on mute). What do I win? :-O

digital man

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Well, there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO4nxiWNw3s
and there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzEyJtMplfM

digital man

Oh jesus, I used to wear Ed Hardy shirts... and man, that is really bad. If that was the meet-up I'd be really bummed, and 'have a meeting' with the sickness.

Lol.



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